How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

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How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by DavidR on Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:43 pm

Lets discuss GRIPING THE slab grips on your 1911;.... What gives you the best most accurate hold or works best for you?
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by james r chapman on Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:46 pm

Geez, I grip the gun in my right hand, place the grip in my left hand while wiggling it around until it no longer feels loose.

Jim
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by DavidR on Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:05 pm

A lot of the old masters recommend that, not Zins he has his own style, also someone posted recently about gripping in a way that you don't touch the grip. That's a style I haven't heard before. We have plenty of 2600 shooters here, their input would be welcomed as a way to help the newer or class stuck members.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by james r chapman on Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:14 pm

well, I'm neither a Master, nor a 2600 shooter...lol.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by dronning on Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:41 pm

I use Brian's method
http://www.brianzins.com/2010/06/11/grip/

- Dave
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by kwixdraw on Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:53 pm

I didn't know it was Zin's method. I use that grip and came about it from carrying a 1911 holstered over 20+ years. Just one more question though. How many of us are using an arched MSH? I've always felt comfortable with the flat one but since we are talking about grip, I just wondered.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by dronning on Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:42 pm

I tried an arched MSH and felt is was more comfortable. My groups at first were the same but then they started to get bigger. I went back to the flat MSH and groups have tightened up even more than before.

Just like with my Air Pistol, comfort doesn't = consistency. The most comfortable AP grip I sculpted for myself fit like a glove but created a hold that was all over the place.

- Dave
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by dan allen on Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:03 pm

I use a flat MSH. I place the pistol in my shooting hand with the slide in perfect alignment with my forearm and close my shooting hand taking care not to disturb this alignment.

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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by john bickar on Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:56 pm

I use the Zins grip.

I once heard (or read) him say that it's not the "Zins grip", that he didn't invent it, it was around before he started shooting. But I'm of the opinion that once you win Perry a few times, you probably deserve to have something named after you, and it's better for that to be a gripping style than an alibi rule.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by Jack H on Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:31 pm

Anybody ever read the grip description in the AMU Manual? 

In 2009, I emailed Brian and asked if it more or less agreed with his concept.


The 2009 exchange:
Brian
Does the description of "3. Method of getting the proper grip:...." here:
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/chapter1.htm
jive in any way with what we understand to be the "Zins" grip?

Link to the site, and scroll way down to C.3.

Brian's reply:
Sounds pretty close to it.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by sixftunda on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:03 am

I had used an arched MSH for the last year and just last month switch back to a flat.  I think it is something you should re-evaluate every so often as I am sure that as you get older your body changes and so do your hands. 

I use the Zins grip.  We are generally told that the thumb is just along for the ride and shouldn't be exerting any pressure on the gun.  One thing I have begun doing is making sure that no part of my trigger finger is exerting pressure on the gun.  Particularly the last knuckle of your trigger finger.  Sometimes when I have my grip I will take my non-shooting hand and pull my trigger finger away from the gun then let it gently fall back.  This way the skin of my palm is not pulling on my trigger finger.  If you take your non-shooting hand and pull down on the skin of the palm of your other hand it will move your fingers.  I don't want my grip having anything to do with my trigger finger. 
Hope this helps. I could post some pics if you wanted.
James


Last edited by sixftunda on Sat Jun 20, 2015 1:07 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by rich.tullo on Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:14 am

I have switched back to the Zinns grip from a standard grip with a harrets nm grip. So far, I just shot a 277 in my 22lr league and my practice scores are better despite increasing my trigger weight. To 4 pounds and to 3 pounds on my 22lr after discovering I was under weight with NRA weights. 

I was using the NM grip on all 1911s because I had a bad case of tendonitus from a Xesse I had that was not working well for me. I think there standard grips were not right for how the gun recoiled in my arm. 

I have short fingers and the Zinns grip seems to work well and it does place the thumb in the right position. 

I just ordered a set of these , look good.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/236778164/1911-custom-made-pistol-grips-with-thumb?ref=also_bought
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by james r chapman on Sat Jun 20, 2015 8:18 am

john bickar wrote:I use the Zins grip.

I once heard (or read) him say that it's not the "Zins grip", that he didn't invent it, it was around before he started shooting. But I'm of the opinion that once you win Perry a few times, you probably deserve to have something named after you, and it's better for that to be a gripping style than an alibi rule.

Yeah, the "Chapman" grip developed by an unclassified shooter sure wouldn't carry THAT kind of respect, lol

Shocked
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by rich.tullo on Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:18 am

In yur yevs book he discusses grip and finger placement for heavey triggers and rapid fire sillotte shooting.

Apply that to a 1911 you get the Zinns grip.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by DavidR on Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:25 am

I have tried arched, several times and even the wedge variant, they feel good in my hand but seem to make it harder to break the shot, went back to flat and sticking with them.
For those using zins grip, what part of the finger do you use to pull trigger, pad,joint, in-between and are you gripping the front strap with the first joint, second joint or in the middle, trying to get the right feel of the zins from those that are using with good success.


Last edited by DavidR on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by Axehandle on Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:45 am

Years after I made the 2600 club with iron sights, got my distinguished badge that same year, I realized that that little void at the heel of my hand would be filled with the arched housing.  I went to the arched housing with the 1911 Service Pistol, and to the wedge/Vee housing on my wadcutter guns and never looked back.  Always was taught the grip is front to rear with  no fingertip and no thumb.  When we'd check into the big military matches the armorers always wanted to replace the loose grips on my 1911s.  I always stopped them with the statement that if you properly gripped the gun you would never know it.

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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by DavidR on Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:17 am

Axehandle wrote: Always was taught the grip is front to rear with  no fingertip and no thumb.  When we'd check into the big military matches the armorers always wanted to replace the loose grips on my 1911s.  I always stopped them with the statement that if you properly gripped the gun you would never know it.
This is another style of hold that would be interesting to hear more about, J.Keefer posted some pics in another thread with flat metal grips w/texture tape that might have been for this type hold, not sure.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by rich.tullo on Sat Jun 20, 2015 6:34 pm

I have been using my finger tip I'll try the joint tomorrow. In the past the joint has pulled my shots right. I think maybe if you joint it have to on the bone. Because dry firing that way seems to make a difference.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by Axehandle on Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:41 am

Those little twitches we try to work out with our dry firing tell us volumes about the position of our finger on the trigger.  If the dot doesn't sit dead in the middle of the target when you dry fire it most likely means you are NOT bringing the trigger straight to the rear.  It may be value added for you to experiment with more or less finger through the trigger guard.

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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by DavidR on Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:22 am

I tried my best to shoot a match this weekend using the zin grip,did not work for me at all, just didn't feel in control of the gun, scores were some of my worst ever, this was not my first attempt using it but same results. Im going back to what the old masters taught, its worked well for me in the past.

Would like to here more  details on grip from those that have success with using a style other than the zin grip.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by Virgil Kane on Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:57 am

A question here. Doesn't the Zin's grip work for Brian because of the size of his hands? I know Zin's has much smaller hands that I do and when I try his grip I feel lost, out of control and I feel I have to send my trigger finger to yoga classes to get it to bend in a way that I pull the trigger straight back. The rest of my gun hand feels like I'm trying to make shadow puppets. Not comfortable at all for me.

 I have not taken one of Zin's seminars so maybe I'm way off base by saying this, but. I think what ever feels comfortable and allows trigger control and a straight pull back would work best  instead of trying to be Brian when we are all physically  different.

Have we gotten caught up in trying to replicate a successful shooter instead of trying to be a successful shooter ourselves?

Not putting Brian down, what he has achieved is outstanding ! But what did shooters do before there was a Brian Zin's ?

Just some idle thoughts from someone that has trouble holding a fork the same way twice.

OK I'm ready for the explosion  bom


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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by DavidR on Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:15 am

I agree, I cant use his type grip, I have a size large hand. Im sure it does work for many but I don't think it will for everyone.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by LenV on Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:26 am

I think it should be mentioned that it is very important to grip the pistol very hard. I come from the old USAMTU school of shooting and was taught that a tight grip was important. As reported earlier the AMU grip is very similar to the Zins grip. I make contact however with my finger tips and thumb but with just very light pressure. After gripping the pistol I increase the pressure (not on tips or thumb)on the grips until my hand starts to tremble then back off the pressure until the tremble stops. After some 40+ years of shooting you develop a heck of a grip. The pistol never feels like it is trying to get away from me. This may not work for everyone but it is what works for me.

Len (and the fork should be held in the left hand, silly Americans)
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by Jack H on Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:16 pm

The "Zins" grip seems to feature placing the MSH on the solid area between the thumb ham and the pinky ham, and the backstrap lays along the lifeline on the palm.  This only works if your thumb ham is small enough.  My thumb ham covers my lifeline.  I cannot bend the pistol grip around the ham to reach the center area at the base of my palm. 

My point on the AMU description is that you press and wiggle the pistol straight back into the hand web and palm to find the most locked in position regardless of where the MSH ends up.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

Post by rich.tullo on Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:16 am

I think the Zinns grip is an alternative for people with short finger who have a medium to long trigger. 

With other grips I had all kinds of wrong angles and could never really pull straight back. 

I think that's the benefit, knuckle placement does not work for me and perhaps one should consider the finger placement as separate from the grip. 

It also works pretty good with Harrett's checkered grips on the M41.
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Re: How do you Grip the Slabs on the 1911

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