Alliant BE-86

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Alliant BE-86

Post by Bigtrout on Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:39 am

Has anyone tried this powder for bullseye shooting?    Good or bad?  Any answers or comments greatly appreciated....all this rookie has used to date is Titegroup.    Thanks.

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by dronning on Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:46 am

I bought some for my 9mm and I haven't tried it yet. It is not close to Bullseye powder, the burn rate of BE-86 as slightly slower than Unique and slightly faster than Power Pistol.

Most the data I have found has been loaders working up velocities, not much on accuracy.

- Dave

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by sixftunda on Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:59 pm

Ben Ammonette from Alliant shoots on Team UltraDot with me and he was suggesting BE86 to me.  I haven't had a chance to buy any yet.  He was suggesting a load of 5.4 grains for BE shooting.

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by LongSlide on Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:18 pm

Not for bullseye loads; it's a slow powder.  But I did explore the top end for 45 working up to the +P max load from Alliant (published max is 7.4gn @ 977 fps).   Seems like a nice powder for hot 45 loads.

Chrono reading at 10 feet.  Shot from 5" 1911: square bottom firing pin stop, 25# main spring, 20# recoil spring, new Starline +P 45 brass, 230gn Xtreme plated RN, CCI LPP,  1.265" OAL, 0.470" crimp:

7.4gn be-86, avg=992 fps, SD=10.8, ES=24, min=982, max=1006, N=5

Brass and primer looked good, no signs of excess pressure  -- other than a 230gn bullet moving at 992fps. ;-)

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by Bigtrout on Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:52 am

Good information, Longslide.  I thought BE-86 was slower than my exclusively used Titegroup but in the medium burning range.  I don't have the data but the load recipes seem to imply a medium burning powder.    I do shoot only bullseye and did a rough group comparison between TG and 86 at 50 feet.  I saw no difference between 4.0 TG and 5.2 & 86 using Everglades 124 concave base FMJ RN, 124 FMJ RN and  JHP, all 1.130.  Today I'm going to test Evgld 115 JHP loaded with 5.2, 5.5, 5.8 and 6.1 BE-86 at 1.120, 10 shots each to try to capture the best charge for that bullet at 25 yds. 

You seem to have a good handle on bullseye powder.  Would you mind telling me (if it's not proprietary) the best powder is for my full size 9mm RO?

  I am a rookie and want to compete in friendly club matches but still would like to get the best performance I can.  I bought the BE-86 based on Alliant's recommendation.  I wanted to get higher velocities since the forum seems to think 9mm performs the best at higher velocities.   Thanks.

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by james r chapman on Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:18 am


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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by JIMPGOV on Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:39 am

I FOUND VV330 WAS THE MOST ACCURATE IN RANSOM REST TESTING AT 50 YDS.
5.0 GR V330 FOR THE 115GR 9MM JHP OR FMJ.

SECOND WAS 4.8 GR VV320 OR 5.4 GR WSF, EVEN TIE WITH SIERRA 8115 FMJ OR HORNADY 115 GR XTP.

HORNADY 115GR HAP AND ZERO 115GR CONICAL JHP WERE TIED  AT JUST SLIGHTLY LARGER GROUP THAN THE XTP AT 50YDS. JP


Last edited by JIMPGOV on Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I HAD 155 GR INSTEAD OF 115 GR)

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:57 pm

JimPGOV,

How does the load data translate between the VV powders and the BE-86?

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by JIMPGOV on Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:14 pm

"You seem to have a good handle on bullseye powder.  Would you mind telling me (if it's not proprietary) the best powder is for my full size 9mm RO?"POSTED BY THREAD STARTER IN POST # 5. 

 NO COMMENT ON THE POSTER IN POST #6.
"9mm, WSF
http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t1796-9mm-hardball-loads"

 DID I VIOLATE A RULE ?

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by james r chapman on Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:37 pm

Bigtrout wrote:

 Would you mind telling me (if it's not proprietary) the best powder is for my full size 9mm RO?
 


That is also what I was commenting on.


Last edited by james r chapman on Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Tom Brady declaration of innocence...)

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by Rob Kovach on Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:24 pm

No Rules were violated.

It sounded like JimPGOV had used the various VV powders. I wanted to know he had compared the VV to BE86.

I have more experience with Alliant powders. I've never loaded with VV.

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by JIMPGOV on Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:14 pm

OK, NOT THE WAY I READ IT.

I HAVE NOT USED BE-86. WHEN I WAS FIGURING OUT THE 9MM FOR 50YD ACCURACY I TRIED EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN, OR SO I THOUGHT.  I DON'T REMEMBER BE-86 AROUND 15 YEARS AGO. THAT MUST BE NEWER POWDER. JP

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by Bigtrout on Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:23 am

Bigtrout wrote:Good information, Longslide.  I thought BE-86 was slower than my exclusively used Titegroup but in the medium burning range.  I don't have the data but the load recipes seem to imply a medium burning powder.    I do shoot only bullseye and did a rough group comparison between TG and 86 at 50 feet.  I saw no difference between 4.0 TG and 5.2 & 86 using Everglades 124 concave base FMJ RN, 124 FMJ RN and  JHP, all 1.130.  Today I'm going to test Evgld 115 JHP loaded with 5.2, 5.5, 5.8 and 6.1 BE-86 at 1.120, 10 shots each to try to capture the best charge for that bullet at 25 yds. 

You seem to have a good handle on bullseye powder.  Would you mind telling me (if it's not proprietary) the best powder is for my full size 9mm RO?

  I am a rookie and want to compete in friendly club matches but still would like to get the best performance I can.  I bought the BE-86 based on Alliant's recommendation.  I wanted to get higher velocities since the forum seems to think 9mm performs the best at higher velocities.   Thanks.
Thanks James and JPGOV for the hint for Hardball loads.

Yesterdays experiment resulted in 5/8" to 1 1/4" groups for 5.2 and 6.1 grns in two targets in 5-shot cells firing both cells (10 shots) in each target at 25yds.  Both cells held zero POI.  The 5.5 and 5.8 grn cells, same procedure, yielded 7/8" to 2 1/4" groups with POI 1 1/2" below zero.   This experiment deserves repeating and will include the 4.8 Titegroup recipe used in the Hardball data.   I don't have the 115 FMJ's in those Hbl data but will substitute Everglades 115 JHP competition style which I used yesterday.  I feel like my "sweet spot" is right around the corner.   I'll post my results of the repeat experiment in a few days if I'm not boring everybody to death.  Thanks again for all the tips and data.

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by Bigtrout on Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:30 am

JIMPGOV wrote:OK, NOT THE WAY I READ IT.

I HAVE NOT USED BE-86. WHEN I WAS FIGURING OUT THE 9MM FOR 50YD ACCURACY I TRIED EVERYTHING UNDER THE SUN, OR SO I THOUGHT.  I DON'T REMEMBER BE-86 AROUND 15 YEARS AGO. THAT MUST BE NEWER POWDER. JP

BE-86 is relatively new from Alliant....maybe a couple years on the market.

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by clark2245 on Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:16 pm

sixftunda wrote:Ben Ammonette from Alliant shoots on Team UltraDot with me and he was suggesting BE86 to me.  I haven't had a chance to buy any yet.  He was suggesting a load of 5.4 grains for BE shooting.
Ben told me this is their commercial version of the powder Federal uses in their match 45 ammo.   He first mentioned a load of 5.2 grains for a 185 JHP bullet then later said some had been trying from 5.0 up to 5.5 grains.   It is a little slower powder which results in what seems a little less of a sharp bang type recoil but a little more of a push.   When I mentioned this Ben immediately started off on an explanation of the difference in the pressure curves and such.  I do not have access to a ransom but it seems accurate offhand using around the 5.2 or a little more loads.   Ben also indicated it would work with lead bullets but was primarily for jacketed.

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Re: Alliant BE-86

Post by Bigtrout on Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:00 am

clark2245 wrote:
sixftunda wrote:Ben Ammonette from Alliant shoots on Team UltraDot with me and he was suggesting BE86 to me.  I haven't had a chance to buy any yet.  He was suggesting a load of 5.4 grains for BE shooting.
Ben told me this is their commercial version of the powder Federal uses in their match 45 ammo.   He first mentioned a load of 5.2 grains for a 185 JHP bullet then later said some had been trying from 5.0 up to 5.5 grains.   It is a little slower powder which results in what seems a little less of a sharp bang type recoil but a little more of a push.   When I mentioned this Ben immediately started off on an explanation of the difference in the pressure curves and such.  I do not have access to a ransom but it seems accurate offhand using around the 5.2 or a little more loads.   Ben also indicated it would work with lead bullets but was primarily for jacketed.
Great info. Thank you.  I do use exclusively jacketed.  I have noticed a larger number of throws needed to stabilize at the desired weight in my Uniflow with the 50 grain cylinder.  TG usually took 5 to 10 throws before stabilizing.  86 seems to take 10 to 20 before I get 5 consistent throws.  A minor problem considering the good accuracy I'm getting on a bench and my homemade pistol rest.  I hope to repeat today the experiment I shot Tuesday and add a couple Titegroup 10-shot cells for good measure.  I think the burning rate can be comparatively approximated by looking at the loads for different powders, same bullet and same COL in the load recipes, but is just that, an approximation.  Power Pistol is even slower but David Sams uses it for his go- to 9mm 115 RN load.  Interesting stuff.

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Re: Alliant BE-86

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