What do we want in a bullseye gun

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What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by kwixdraw on 7/18/2015, 10:47 am

I was asked this question by a gunmaker developing a new line of 1911s. Top quality forged, machined slides and receivers.  My answer was pretty detailed but boiled down to; Accurate, reliable and durable. Accurate enough to hold the ten ring at 50 yards. Reliable because alibi strings kill your scores. Durable because we shoot a bunch of rounds and you cant have your gun down for service all the time.
Does that pretty much cover the bases?
                                                         Cliff
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by LenV on 7/18/2015, 10:56 am

It would be nice if it was offered with the choice of sights/no sights. Stippling standard would be nice. Definitely no lawyer designed safety. Full length guide rod standard. I was just thinking about the drawer full of parts you end up pulling out of production models and replacing or keeping forever.

Len
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by jglenn21 on 7/18/2015, 11:18 am

hmmm full length guide rod?


always figured they were not needed on any 1911?
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by LenV on 7/18/2015, 11:30 am

They add weight up front and lifetime to your recoil spring. The weight helps.
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by kwixdraw on 7/18/2015, 12:46 pm

Some of the ideas I put out were sights that could be changed easily. With most of us getting up there in years the iron sights have become a real challenge. If a Glock type front sight was used there could be sight blades that were wider or more narrow, undercut, ramped, plain or serrated faces and they could be changed reasonably easily with simple tools by Joe average. Maybe a modified Bomar type rear sight with a blade that could be configured with various widths and depths to the notch. Square cut corners or rounded, Serrated rear surface or matte dull finish. designed so that a new shaft would not be needed to change and detent balls wouldn't go flying in the process. I suggested tapping the slide for a rail to sit between the irons for mounting a red dot. Maybe do a rib like on a gold cup so the plugged holes wouldn't be an eyesore. Trigger legal for EIC and good enough for NRA. What do you think? Is that valid stuff?


Last edited by kwixdraw on 7/18/2015, 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by Jack H on 7/18/2015, 12:58 pm

Top quality material and machining and pin holes in the frame.
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by kwixdraw on 7/18/2015, 1:24 pm

From what I have seen that is a given Jack. These guys seem to really get it in the materials and processes department. Top notch stuff.  What price point would be a setback?


Last edited by kwixdraw on 7/18/2015, 1:26 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : additional text.)
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by SteveT on 7/18/2015, 3:27 pm

Accurate enough to hold better than the X ring at 50 yards and 100% reliable. 

Open sights as good as Euro guns. Different front sight widths. No tools needed to adjust the rear sight. Adjustable rear notch width and depth, adjustable sight radius.

Scope mount machined into the slide.

Frame mount designed in, not tacked on after - Dovetail on the dust cover like the Hammerli 208 would be great.

Dovetail or threaded holes for adding weights to the dustcover.

Fully adjustable trigger, similar to the Euro guns.

Eliminate the grip safety and make the grip area of the frame as small as possible allowing more adjustability in the grip.

It only needs a 5 round magazine if that makes some of the other things easier.

Those are my more reasonable ideas. Now for the more.. ahem... unconventional ideas.

A lever that would lock the barrel and slide for maximum accuracy during Slow Fire (at the cost of more recoil and manual cocking), then release it and shoot Timed and Rapid semi-auto.

Small basket or bag that attaches to the ejection port and catches the brass (but must not ever cause a stovepipe) or a way to feed the empty case back into the magazine. Rotary magazine?

I like the idea of fixed barrel 45, if anyone can get it to work in large volume production.
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by james r chapman on 7/18/2015, 4:09 pm

Hmmm, would you like fries with that order, sir


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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by kwixdraw on 7/18/2015, 4:11 pm

We are still talking about a 1911 platform here. Maybe the recon style dustcover could be used to mount weights if desired. It appears the rules would allow it.
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by LenV on 7/18/2015, 4:24 pm

SteveT your in luck. They already make the pistol of your dreams. Fixed barrel, catches its own brass, no grip safety and the new models come pre-drilled to accept scope rails. The perfect 1911/55..kinda



Sorry, having fun here but this pistol is a pretty good match.


Last edited by OldMaster65 on 7/18/2015, 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by Axehandle on 7/18/2015, 4:29 pm

Just copy the old original Springfield NM 1911 with good materials with parallel holes and frame and slide rails held to current CNC standards.  Provide that and I'll have my favorite custom gun builder build the  gun to my personal preferences.

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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by SteveT on 7/18/2015, 4:57 pm

james r chapman wrote:Hmmm, would you like fries with that order, sir

Hey, ask me what I want and I'll tell you Smile



OldMaster65 wrote:SteveT your in luck. They already make the pistol of your dreams. Fixed barrel, catches its own brass, no grip safety and the new models come pre-drilled to accept scope rails. The perfect 1911/55..kinda


Sorry, having fun here but this pistol is a pretty good match.
lol!  Nice one!
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by Axehandle on 7/18/2015, 5:30 pm

FWIW I see Scott County is close to where the gunsmith Dave Severns has set up shop.  If he is who you are talking to RUN do not walk away.  From my first hand experience he doesn't know what a bullseye gun is.  There are real bullseye gun builders out there..

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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by kwixdraw on 7/18/2015, 7:21 pm

Thanks Axe. Deep River Custom is the company. They provided me with a Kart barrel threaded for a cone bushing. I wanted to try Jerry Keefers favorite method but I don't have my lathe and equipment up and running. Hugh has checked back with me to see if everything was satisfactory and offered any assistance to make my project come out first class. We have been having an ongoing conversation about fads and fashions in the 1911 world and he asked me what would a bullseye shooter want in a 1911. You see what we have gotten. There has been no badmouthing of anyone's product. It appears they have a very substantial investment in time and equipment to make their guns and components something that we would be very happy with. As I mentioned they have been consulting with Bob Marvel on how things need to be done. I have not been solicited to post anything. As much as anything I was curious to see how what I want in a bullseye gun would match what you more accomplished guys would want. Personally, I love my 1911s. I have no desire to shoot a Pardini or anything other than a 1911. I carried one on duty for darned near a quarter century and it pulled my fat out of the fire several times. It's still my go to pistol, bullseye or combat.
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by Ghillieman on 7/20/2015, 9:42 am

A bullseye shooter wants a 1911 45 that is EIC legal that a dot sight can be quickly attached and then detached but still maintain zero and be used for the NRA 45 match. Also adjust the trigger reset and weight and over travel with out disassembly.
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

Post by rich.tullo on 7/21/2015, 10:08 am

Kit one receiver and three uppers

1) 22LR Kit
2) 45 ACP Hard Ball Kit
3) 45 ACP Wad kit 

Main Spring Housing with an adjustable sear and Marvel Ramp. 

Would not be cheap but if they could do that for $4K all in it might work.


All fitted.
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Re: What do we want in a bullseye gun

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