Sizing in a separate stage?

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Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by lablover on Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:05 pm

I'm mostly been a Rifle loader in the past but now with my new addiction "Bullseye" I have a loading question.  With rifle I would lube and size in a separate step.  That way I could tumble and clean the gunk of my cases before I load.

I have dillon Carbide dies but I also understand that one should lube as well.  My once fired cases are cleaned before I do anything but if I lube, then load I have a bunch of sticky loaded ammo..Smile  Do most just lube and load then throw the loaded cases into the tumbler and clean off the lube?

I'd be interested in knowing what process some use.  I load on a Dillon 650xl

I clean in Stainless tubing media and usually use corncob to clean off lube form cleaned cases.  I'm pretty anal about clean brass..

Thanks

Joe

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:09 pm

If I'm going to load an outhouse at one sitting I may spray some Hornady One Shot on the pile of brass.
That is to save my elbow and no other reason.
Carbide dies are the nuts

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by 243winxb on Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:10 pm

My RCBS tungsten carbide pistol dies need no lube.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by james r chapman on Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:48 pm

I took Jerry's advice, and hit the shells with One Shot in a container, shook them around and was amazed at how much easier they went thru my carbide pistol sizing dies. Then I tumble and clean them, prime, then go to the progressive.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by lablover on Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:22 pm

james r chapman wrote:I took Jerry's advice, and hit the shells with One Shot in a container, shook them around and was amazed at how much easier they went thru my carbide pistol sizing dies. Then I tumble and clean them, prime, then go to the progressive.
This is what I was thinking of doing.  Honestly I did a few hundred with them just being spotless clean and the carbide worked fine.  I could see how a little lube would be easy on the arm  Smile

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by james r chapman on Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:20 pm

lablover wrote:  I could see how a little lube would be easy on the arm  Smile

on second thought, I'll leave that one alone.....

lol!

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by lablover on Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:31 pm

james r chapman wrote:
lablover wrote:No No   I could see how a little lube would be easy on the arm  Smile

on second thought, I'll leave that one alone.....

lol!

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by jmdavis on Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:20 pm

Some one shot or Dillon lube per layer in a plastic tub, shake them up and then load on the progressive. In go cleaned cases and out come reloaded ammo.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by Wobbley on Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:28 pm

You don't need much either.  Just a small spritz, stir them with your hands and a 1000 cases are lubed for carbide dies.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by LenV on Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:42 pm

IMHO Carbide dies don't need any lube and I have never seen it make any difference on a pistol case if you clean the primer pockets. Just clean/polish them once and load them. I have much better results polishing the case with the primers in then out. Then, You don't have to clean the walnut out of the primer holes. YMMV.

Len

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by kwixdraw on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:44 am

If you are going to wet tumble your brass, it would seem a waste to not size and decap them before cleaning them. I think you need to check different sizing dies to see what gives you the best result. I like my Dillon dies but I have recently used a Lee carbide sizer to size and decap prior to cleaning. I like the amount of sizing the Lee die gives and the cases will still drop right into a Wilson case gauge. The loaded rounds seem to come out more concentric and I think the sized cases are less "sticky" on the Dillon expander-powder funnel. Cleaning enough to size them is the issue for me. I've been using walnut hull with steel pins added and a dash of Meguier's cleaner wax to get the fresh crud off. This is not to recondition corroded range salvage brass. It does leave the brass clean enough to size and decap and the tiny bit of wax seems to help ease the sizing pressure without spraying, though a spritz of Dillon lube would probably be even better. Once I have my wet tumbling system set up I expect to prime the really clean, sized brass by hand and skip the sizing station on the Dillon 550b.  Reloading for accuracy is a big part of the fun for me.


Last edited by kwixdraw on Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : addition.)

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by SSgtG on Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:26 am

Having been a highpower shooter before I get the focus on details when making rifle ammo. However, .45 is a different beast altogether. To make accurate ammo for your .45 it just does not take all that much detail. I'm sure some will disagree but everyone gets to choose where you invest your time. You want to shoot better? Tumble your cases reasonably clean, give them a shot of Hornady One Shot lube if you are feeling weak, and run the whole operation on the progressive. Then using all that time you didn't piddle away on pretty brass and details that do not add anything to your scores, spend it dry-firing. You will improve a thousand times faster dry-firing than having sparkling primer pockets.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by DavidR on Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:38 am

if you tumble in media, just add a cap full of liquid car wax and your cases will load like butter, its the same thing the reload companies sell in little bottles and call case tumble polish.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by jmdavis on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:30 am

OldMaster65 wrote:IMHO Carbide dies don't need any lube and I have never seen it make any difference on a pistol case if you clean the primer pockets. Just clean/polish them once and load them. I have much better results polishing the case with the primers in then out. Then, You don't have to clean the walnut out of the primer holes. YMMV.

Len


The problem that I ran into with no lube and especially new cases was that the case would stick in the Dillon powder/expaner die on the way out. I started lubing the case with a bit of one shot and now Dillon spray and the problem went away. 

I take the cases fresh from the range, tumble to clean. lube in a plastic tub and then load. If using new cases, I just lube them and run them through the progressive. 

I will admit that I haven't tried loading once fired cases without lube. If the sticking problem was the new cases, things might be just fine without the lube.


Last edited by jmdavis on Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by rich.tullo on Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:20 pm

I like the redding sizing die

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by tonyg on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:43 pm

Hi Joe, Before I resize my 38 special or 45acp fired cases; I first of all deprime

them using a Lee Universal decapping/depriming die. Then, I clean/polish them in

my Thumler's Tumbler using SS pins.  They are then ready for close inspection

before I resize them and continue with my routine reloading process.   Accurate

scrutiny is enhanced when the case inside, outside and primer pocket is highly

polished.

Tony

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by james r chapman on Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:46 pm

+1

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by Deerspy on Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:22 pm

I do the same as Tony with a add step after SS pins I run them through the corn cob with polish and they slide through carbide dies easy (just about 20 minuets in the corn).

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by lablover on Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:37 pm

Deerspy wrote:I do the same as Tony with a add step after SS pins I run them through the corn cob with polish and they slide through carbide dies easy (just about 20 minuets in the corn).
OK, so I'm not the only one.  I do the same and was wondering if I should spray lube.  Really don't think its needed being the cases are so darn clean.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by Dave C. on Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:18 am

Dillon said the reason my 30yr old size die started to scratch my brass was that with out case lube the cases started to gall. This left small bits of very difficult to remove brass stuck to the die. So now I clean them in walnut then spray a little case lube on them load and shoot.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by 243winxb on Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:32 pm

A Dillon pistol sizing dies  titanium nitride   coated  (like Hornady) or tungsten carbide? I could not find the answer online.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by jglenn21 on Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:46 pm

carbide I believe

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

Post by noylj on Fri Aug 14, 2015 6:50 am

Personal opinion: in 40 years, I have never worried about lube on a pistol case.
With carbide dies, no lube is needed, obviously, but if you do lube, you need so very little--and not even on every case.
If your cases are sticky, you are using WAY too much lube and the wrong lube--all you need is less than a drop of lube on a finger to do about 20+ cases. Get the Dillon or Frankford Arsenal spray bottle lubes--lightly spray onto cases or into plastic bag and allow the case to flash dry for a couple of minutes.
With pistols, you aren't shooting 60+ ksi and you don't have bolt thrust to worry about like a rear locking bolt action rifle (which was where the original bolt thrust concern came from).

Do not understand the recommendation of sizing and depriming before cleaning, as the whole reason to clean the case is so you don't damage the sizing die. Now, most seem to be into shiny, but the original need for cleaning was to save the sizing die.
I deprime all cases with a Lee Universal Decapping Die as part of my inspection and sorting. I may clean in 20/40 corn, or ultrasonic, or with SS pins as I feel like it.
9x19, 9x21, .40S&W, 10mm Auto, .45 Auto, and .45 Win Mag then generally go through a Lee Bulge-Buster before they get poured into the case collator.

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Re: Sizing in a separate stage?

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