I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

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I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by lablover on Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:10 pm

I really enjoy loading Small Primer 45 acp brass.  Reason is I don't have to change out my Dillon 650 priming system.  Is there any benefit to loading large primers vs small?  Accuracy?  Reliability?

I'm all ears Gents

Joe

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by Wobbley on Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:15 pm

Not really.  But the vast majority has large primers.

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by james r chapman on Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:19 pm

What did JB design it for? hmmm?

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by Wobbley on Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:32 pm

The original military brass was loaded with .204 diameter primers.  So the correct answer is neither.

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by james r chapman on Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:39 pm

WHAT!,

geez....

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by LenV on Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:47 pm

.204 primers to get all the black powder exploding.

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by rich.tullo on Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:02 am

Blazer brass is great. If I had more I would load only small primers.

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by LenV on Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:33 pm

The small primer pockets work good for hotter loads. The extra brass around the primer gives additional support to the primer pocket and allows you to really soup them up without deforming. Corbon has switched to all small pockets for their hot loads. I also like Blazer brass because it is strong enough to be reformed into .400 Corbon. That however is the only reason I use the small primers. Because of our reduced loads and the relatively  large empty spaces inside the .45 case I think the large primer is by far the best way to go for Bullseye. That is just one persons opinion. 

Len

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:10 pm

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/small-vs-large-pistol-primers-45-acp/


http://www.shootingwire.com/features/227654

http://www.starlinebrass.com/articles/Small-Primer-vs-Large-Primer/

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by guncheese on Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:01 am

im glad this topic came back up again

today i took some fresh off the press .45 loads
3.4gr bullseye
small primer brass (federal,speer,blazer,cci all of that is made by ATK)
Sellier&Bellot SPP  (we've run over 10,000 of these in 40,9mm,38,357 and never had a single issue
200gr Lee SWC

these rounds were weird
at first i though i had really messed up
as i was having what i thought were squibs
but the recoils were all over the map
and when i looked down the barrel to check for stuck bullets i saw lots of chunks
didnt put it all together at the time

im betting that this light charge of BE was laying in the bottom curve of the case
and there just wasnt enough primer pop to reliably ignite

ive run 2.7 or 2.8 grains of BE in 45 before and never had a ignition issue
i wonder if i had been running a fluffy powder like 700x or Red Dot if they would have run


sounds like its experiment time!!!


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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by DavidR on Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:49 am

IMO if shooting bullseye and wanting to excel at the sport then the best thing to do with 45 small primer brass is toss it!

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:00 am

DavidR wrote:IMO if shooting bullseye and wanting to excel at the sport then the best thing to do with 45 small primer brass is toss it!

To those who want to excel with Small Primer .45 brass, go for it.  DavidR has always put brass characteristics as one of the variables that he holds in high regard.

To me, you can make consistent ammo with any brass--and even with mixed brass, there isn't a significant difference in point of impact from shot to shot.  Differences might show up on the long line, but for most of us it will not.

Brass isn't worth worrying about until you are never shooting any shots in the white.

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by DavidR on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:11 pm

Rob thinks the details don't matter, I think they do....  Wink

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:36 pm

DavidR wrote:Rob thinks the details don't matter, I think they do....  Wink

I think that Rob may be concerned with getting the basics of shooting in place first, then fine tune details.
You can hand me a premium firearm with the best ammo and it won't make a difference in my score until I make the proper effort.

Or I may be wrong again

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by guncheese on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:05 pm

ohhh geee
this went down a trail i hadn't expected

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by DavidR on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:14 pm

guncheese wrote:ohhh geee
this went down a trail i hadn't expected

It happens, we all have our opinions about what works best. Some forget the name of this game is  "Precision" not what can we get to go bang. If small primer cases worked better then we would all be scampering to get them which is not the case. pun intended lol!

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by dronning on Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:29 pm

If you have small primer brass hang on to it, you never know when large pistol primers may become scarce.

My buddy had a bunch he was saving and used them when he became way long on small primers because he stopped shooting revolvers. The loads had to be modified but in the end no huge difference in his machine rest groupings.

- Dave

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by lablover on Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:33 pm

Like I mentioned, I like them because it makes it easy to not have to change over the priming system of the Dillon 650.  If they suck then I'll suck it up and change over.  I only have 1000 of them and am now in the process of getting my brass stores up..Guess I'll be buying large  Smile  No worries at all on my end.

I will say the loss I tested are pretty accurate....Then again, being a newbie I may "Think" they are accurate.  You guys scare me...LOL....No really...  lol!

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by guncheese on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:01 pm

well.....  the whole point of my asking the question was
about how they reacted to the light charge
and had anyone seen this
i didnt ask "should I?"  scratch
if i was competing i wouldnt be using them
but i shoot alot  so using them isnt a far fetched idea

so i still dont know if anyone has seen my results with light charges
or could theorize why they acted this way   confused

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by lablover on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:03 pm

guncheese wrote:well.....  the whole point of my asking the question was
about how they reacted to the light charge
and had anyone seen this
i didnt ask "should I?"  scratch
if i was competing i wouldnt be using them
but i shoot alot  so using them isnt a far fetched idea

so i still dont know if anyone has seen my results with light charges
or could theorize why they acted this way   confused
Yea, I'm interested in seeing results too...Very Weird

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by DavidR on Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:44 pm

guncheese wrote:well.....  the whole point of my asking the question was
about how they reacted to the light charge
and had anyone seen this
i didnt ask "should I?"  scratch
if i was competing i wouldnt be using them
but i shoot alot  so using them isnt a far fetched idea

so i still dont know if anyone has seen my results with light charges
or could theorize why they acted this way   confused
My opinions were based on the questions asked by the original poster. My response's were for his question.

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:20 pm

Looks like I'll have to set up the machine rest and a batch of light SPP bullseye loads and get scientific results to settle this just like I did with the mixed head stamp and flash hole discussion from a couple years ago.

I predict there will be ZERO difference in accuracy between SPP and Large Pistol Primers.

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by Wobbley on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:35 pm

It doesn't really matter if the primers are large or small.  I might use magnum primers if I was getting bad ignition rather than change powders first.  But the key to consistent ammo is to segregate differences.  That would not necessarily mean segregating military cases by maker and year, but by maker?  Sure.  The reason I don't pick up SPP brass is that I don't have enough to justify the separate setups so it would be a distraction.  

To me you need about 500 cases in a "batch".  This way a box of cast bullets makes up one batch of ammo.  You can have multiple batches.  Even a mixed up mess so long as it is for short line or practice.

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by guncheese on Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:34 pm

i have about 300 small primer brass
and i run them thru in one bunch (i think this is their 4th go round)
but ive not used BE in them
just fluffier powders
i guess im just going to pull a bunch of them and see whats in them (i wont be happy if i find missing powder, but the mystery will be solved)
if i pull 30 and they were all fine
then i have to blame something else
and the only something else i have to blame is the SPP

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:40 am

Rob Kovach wrote:Looks like I'll have to set up the machine rest and a batch of light SPP bullseye loads and get scientific results to settle this just like I did with the mixed head stamp and flash hole discussion from a couple years ago.

I predict there will be ZERO difference in accuracy between SPP and Large Pistol Primers.

There will be one difference....price.

Unfortunately for many of us, myself included, switching over would be expensive and without a machine rest to confirm that I gain a measurable difference with my loads I wouldn't convert.  Interesting articles above point to SPP of being possibly advantageous In certain context.


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:35 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: I have to ask...Large vs small Primers

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