First time trying Dot Sight.... Bad idea.

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First time trying Dot Sight.... Bad idea.

Post by Tim:H11 on 11/12/2015, 7:55 pm

First topic message reminder :

I decided to put this under "fundamentals" but almost put it in "equipment". I tried a dot sight for the first time. Horrible! I shoot a Smith 41 with irons, but for trying a dot I just quickly mounted one on my Ruger MKIII Target. That dot bounces and moves all over the place! I was shooting about on par or a point bellow average at 25 yards. I did not get around to trying it out at 50 yards. The groups were crazy, unorganized, random. Not like my 41. My 41 with irons produces tighter, more consistent groups. I thought dot sights were supposed to be more accurate? confused
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Re: First time trying Dot Sight.... Bad idea.

Post by Chris Miceli on 7/15/2017, 8:35 am

mikemyers wrote:I have a question.

I got back from India several weeks ago, having had the cataract in my right eye corrected.  Since my eyes can no longer focus, I had a pair of glasses made with a prescription for the distance to the front sight.  For the past few weeks I've been dry firing every day, and will get to the range in the next few days.

I also got my Clark's barrel for my M-41, and am ready to mount my Matchdot II on it, allowing me to swap back and forth between iron sights and red dot sights.

My question is, I have always been told that with red dot sights, you watch the dot, and from a previous experience, I know how the red dot is quivering all over.  I don't expect it to do anything differently now.  Reading this thread again completely, I'm wondering whether it's better to watch "the dot" or to watch the target.  

For me, shooting iron sights, my focus is completely on the front sight.  I don't see the sight move, but it feels as if I'm working to keep the gap on either side of the front sight equal, along with the height.  I don't need to think about it - from all of Keith Sanderson's talks on holding drills, I've gotten to where that seems to take care of itself automatically.  (For a total of an hour every day, I'm going back and forth between holding the gun steady for one minute, then resting for two minutes, and for half of that time I'm wearing weights on my wrists.)

My question - is it better to keep one's concentration on the target, or on the dot as it moves around?  Since I know it's not a good idea to try to "snatch" a shot as the dot happens to move over the target, watching the target sounds like a better idea to me.  Advice?

try both see what works for you.  I looked at the dot for a while then the target for a while... back to looking at the dot.
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Re: First time trying Dot Sight.... Bad idea.

Post by LenV on 7/15/2017, 9:52 am

There are a lot of opinions about this subject. This is the opinion of one old man with similar eye problem. I focus on the target. I keep both eyes open and turn the dot brightness down so that I can see it but it is not distracting. I let my hind brain keep the dot centered. YMMV

Len
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Re: First time trying Dot Sight.... Bad idea.

Post by mikemyers on 7/15/2017, 7:54 pm

'LenV', I won't know for sure until I try it at the range, but I did try it for dry-firing today, with the brightness turned all the way down, and with me concentrating on a one-inch piece of tape I put on the wall for a target.  I guess I like your description of "letting my hind brain keep the dot centered".  

Maybe it's me, or maybe there is a better answer, but the "dot" was much more civilized than any dots I have seen in the past.  They used to jiggle around all over the place.  Today, the dot stayed more or less where it belonged, through most of the dry-firing session.  Towards the end, as my hands got tired, the dot started to jiggle.  I removed the wrist weights I was wearing, and all was well again.



Suggestion to the person who posted this thread.  What you first wrote reminds me of my experience the first time I tried a red-dot sight.  The dot refused to stay still.  Maybe you can try what I've done - for two weeks, follow Keith Sanderson's instructions on "holding drills", but for half the session, put on a set of wrist weights (you can buy them at Walmart for very little).  At first, it's almost painful, at least for me, to hold the gun up so long.  After a week, it was definitely better.  And nicest of all, when I remove the weights and just hold the gun, the red dot almost looks like a photograph.  It is so much easier to keep it where it belongs.


More info:  http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t4607-keith-sanderson-s-dry-fire-training


Last edited by mikemyers on 7/15/2017, 7:58 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a link at the bottom of the post)
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Re: First time trying Dot Sight.... Bad idea.

Post by Rob Kovach on 7/19/2017, 10:44 am

After working on Iron sights for awhille, I switched back to red-dot for Perry and OH. MY. GOD. I really should have done some practicing first. I can see the bullets going down range and the hole appearing in the target. THAT WAS A HUGE DISTRACTION!! After a couple range sessions, I am doing a better job of coping, but yowza! That was a nightmare.
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Re: First time trying Dot Sight.... Bad idea.

Post by mikemyers on 7/21/2017, 11:54 am

I've been trying these ideas out for the past several days.  My club usually uses a B-2 Target, so I copied the center part and printed two of them, one above the other, on a page.  My current goal is to get 10 shots into a 2" diameter grouping at 15 yards.  Looking at the target, that means it includes half the "8 ring" and the 9 and 10.  

I dry-fire indoors, 12 feet from a door on which I paste a target (or leave blank).  For me, 2" diameter at 15 yards (45 feet) works out to a 1/2" diameter target at 12 feet, so I cut one out from blue sticky-tape, and put it on the door.  

I got two results so far, one of which doesn't make sense to me.  Knowing that I want all my shots in a 2" group, I know I can't dry-fire unless the dot is over the blue tape. I'm getting to where I can do that better, but not reliably.  

The other result was to see what effect coffee had on my shooting.  My body must be wired wrong - when I avoid coffee, the "jitters" are a concern, but even now, when I'm making extra-strong coffee for a test, the coffee seems to make my body more stable, not less.  It's supposed to be the opposite.


Looking at the dot doesn't work for me.  Maybe it's my eyes.  It is easier for me to concentrate on the target, and let my body try to keep the dot where it belongs.  


Rob, I'd love to be able to see what you see.  I sometimes can see a hole appear in the target, but rarely, and I don't think I'll ever be able to see the bullet going downrange.  My cataracts are corrected, so that's not the problem, my vision is excellent, but because of what they call "vitreous separation" I have several large "floaters".  When one of them is in front of my eye, the clarity is diminished.  

--------------------------------------

Back to the original post in this thread.  Tim wrote that when he first put on a red dot sight, it was "horrible".  I might have another reason for that.  I've noticed that when I used to practice dry firing with the three pounds of weights on my wrists, the red dot "jiggled" much more than otherwise.  So, I blame that on the extra weight - but if someone changes their gun by adding a red dot sight, the weight of the gun is increased.  Maybe that was part of the reason why Tim noticed the dot moving around so much?
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