My DR Gun

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My DR Gun

Post by RGK on Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:49 pm

Been enjoying the revolver leg matches; the Reeves match at Perry is fun, too. Here's my S&W 68 in .38 Special, which is my dedicated DR. 
Bob 



I had S&W put a post front sight on it years ago. 



Single action grip. I usually use more finger on the trigger, but this works well on a revolver.


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Re: My DR Gun

Post by Tim:H11 on Fri Nov 27, 2015 4:50 pm

Nice looking revolver. I've got a set of grips like those on my Smith M19 but I don't care for em. I'm gonna have to find a comfortable wood pair of some sort.
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by james r chapman on Fri Nov 27, 2015 5:55 pm

interesting conundrum there. The model 68 was a special model made for the LAPD and CHP utilizing the model 66 frame and barrel with apparently  a model 67 cylinder with the barrel set back .100. interesting stories about these guns.

But, the problem is that replaced front sight. If I understand NRA DR rules correctly, since that was not an original issue front sight (a Baughman ramp integral with the barrel) it would not be legal for DR use. I have an identical 6" model 66 that I had the exact same thing done. Great guns!
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by RGK on Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:44 pm

It would be considered a factory front sight, since this is/was an option with most all S&W revolvers. The Model 19 and 66 came with a variety of front sights, to include the Patridge. I asked this question at Perry before shooting the leg match; it was considered legal to compete with, and I got 10 points at Perry using this revolver in 2013. Refs considered the front sight "factory". I was told that it was comparable to using a Python with Elliason sights. Factory option, doesn't change the profile, barrel length is under 6.5" and the front sight is not adjustable. Good to go.   
Bob


Last edited by RGK on Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by james r chapman on Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:50 am

Good to know then.
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by CR10X on Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:29 am

Well, the only thing I can say is the sometimes the Ref's answers don't seem to match the actual rules.   Imagine that!  

The rules kinda cover this only 3 times in the first paragraph. And no mention of options or variations on models or parts.  Doesn't say anything about sight radius either, just barrel length.  And they wonder why there are so many questions about the rules? 

 3.1.4 Distinguished Revolver - The revolver must be capable of chambering and firing a 158-grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter .38 Special cartridge. It must be a factory manufactured revolver with no external modifications except for stocks which may be modified or changed because of the size of the competitor’s hand or to facilitate loading. Except for stocks and the honing of the sear or sear notch to make a more crisp trigger, and maintain a 2 1/2 lb. minimum trigger pull, no external or internal modification may be made to the revolver as manufactured and sold by the factory of origin. No parts may be removed from the revolver, either externally or internally, nor may any part be added, with the exception of milling the cylinder to accommodate moon clips. Specifically prohibited is any system of recoil control based upon compensators, barrel venting, barrel porting or weighted grips. Exposed holes that have been drilled and tapped for mounting of a scope are not considered to be an external modification. 

(a) Trigger- Must have single and double action capability and must be capable of lifting 2 1/2 lbs when the revolver is cocked for single action firing. Triggers will be weighed. Any trigger, sold by the manufacturer of the revolver, without modification, may be used. 

(b) Sights- Fixed or adjustable rear sights may be used. An Adjustable front sight is not allowed. 

(c) Barrel- Length not to exceed six and one- half inches. (6 1/2”) (d) Stocks- Except as set forth above, the right and left stocks must be mirror images of each other.

(e) Ammunition- Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter bullet only. 

(f) The following are not allowed. Trigger shoes, compensators of type or design; any external trigger stop device; any internal trigger stop not originally installed by the factory as original equipment in stock revolvers of the same make and model; tape on the stocks or stocks flared at the base.

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by james r chapman on Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:43 am

My concern was the front sights on the 64,65,66,67 were all formed with the barrel, all were some form of Baughman ramp. Replacing it require milling it flat, milling the slot and drilling the crosshole. The new 2 pc barrels have the new insert front sights.
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by Virgil Kane on Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:18 pm

My 66 no dash has a pinned front sight from the factory and as far as I know all the older M-66 have this same feature.

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by james r chapman on Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:29 pm

Virgil, your no dash should have a stainless front Baughman ramp sight forged with the barrel.

but, it's S&W, so never say never...
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by RGK on Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:00 pm

james r chapman wrote:

but, it's S&W, so never say never...

Exactly. And that was the point made by the Refs. S&W had so many factory sight variations that it isn't an issue, as long as the sight wasn't adjustable (like the 10" 44 mag S&W made a few years back). For instance, there is a pretty scarce 686 variation, available from Davis years ago in CA, that had a post front sight and a 5" barrel. Front sight was pinned. When I was on the LAPD PPC Team we ordered, directly from the S&W factory, 6" 686's that all had a "tall" Patridge pinned front and a tall rear sight slide installed for PPC neck hold. These would be legal, according to the refs I talked to, because it was a factory option and the front wasn't adjustable. I was told if they (the referees) wanted to be jerks they could probably disallow half the guns on the line; that would be bad for participation.  

Again, a Python with the Accro rear replaced by an Elliason and the front replaced by a factory Patridge is legit. Same thing. Factory option, front not adjustable. Their interpretation. 

Luckily, I only have 8 more points to go; then I'll shoot DR for fun. 
Bob

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by Jerry Keefer on Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:24 pm

I can't count the number of PPC and bullseye revolvers I have installed post front sights on. If it is an option, which it was in almost all cases it will pass muster. I know of none of the hundreds I have done which failed inspection.    Professionally done, it would be nearly impossible for the untrained eye to tell whether it was factory installed or not. At one time, years ago, front post installations were a major part of the business . I was forced to design a special fixture specific to revolvers so the frames can be aligned and supported for milling and installation. You cannot accurately hold an S&W or other revolver by the barrel.
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by Jerry Keefer on Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:32 pm

I bought the high neck hold patridge blades from S&W. The last batch I bought was many years ago, and person told he had x number in stock, and they would
no longer offer that part number once they were. gone.. I bought all he had. About 20 as I recall.
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by james r chapman on Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:54 am

Well then, those model 68's have an interesting history anyway. Now if only the NRA distinguished and NRA (LE) distinguished revolver rules would agree on that Weigand rear sight, we'd be all set! lol
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by Virgil Kane on Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:31 am

james r chapman wrote:Virgil, your no dash should have a stainless front Baughman ramp sight forged with the barrel.

but, it's S&W, so never say never...
" />

Every M-66 no dash and even the dash 1 and dash 2  I have seen has had this type of front sight along with most M-14's. This front sight was replaced and the pin is not yet been files down and sandblasted. Once this is done it will be almost impossible to see that it's a pinned front sight. I do have two  M-28's and the 4" has a pinned front sight and the 6" which is a later model from ~ 1978 has the front sight blade machined into the barrel. From my limited experience I have seen many more S&W pinned front sights than not. At least when we are talking about K and N frame. The J frame is a different story

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by RGK on Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:15 am

66-3, factory front sight done by the factory per my request. 
Bob 


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Re: My DR Gun

Post by james r chapman on Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:34 am

Well,, that tells you how confusing it can be. Not being LE, all of my 66's, consumer purchased, had ramps without pins. No wonder the refs don't call it. The 14 along with the 19 always had IFS, as an option.
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by RGK on Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:36 am

james r chapman wrote:Well,, that tells you how confusing it can be. Not being LE, all of my 66's, consumer purchased, had ramps without pins. No wonder the refs don't call it.

A lot of the Refs are retired cops, too. We're everywhere, except when you need us.  
Bob

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by james r chapman on Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:43 am

RGK wrote:
james r chapman wrote:Well,, that tells you how confusing it can be. Not being LE, all of my 66's, consumer purchased, had ramps without pins. No wonder the refs don't call it.

A lot of the Refs are retired cops, too. We're everywhere, except when you need us.  
Bob

Well, in Detroit, the head man said" arm yourself, we can't be everywhere all the time". I think I like Craig.
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by Virgil Kane on Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:37 am

james r chapman wrote:Well,, that tells you how confusing it can be. Not being LE, all of my 66's, consumer purchased, had ramps without pins. No wonder the refs don't call it. The 14 along with the 19 always had IFS, as an option.


You are correct lol!

It does get confusing.

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by RGK on Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:39 am

Glad we got that settled. 
Bob

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by james r chapman on Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:26 am

Hey, it was fun, no strike, no protest, no " hands up, can't wipe" yappin'

Jim
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by RGK on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:06 am

james r chapman wrote:Hey, it was fun, no strike, no protest, no " hands up, can't wipe" yappin'

Jim

Roger that; great forum and good people. 
Bob

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by Tim:H11 on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:26 am

In my collection I have a S&W M19 sporting a 4" barrel. Does any one have any experience trying or testing that short of a barrel or that model for bullseye use? I'm wondering that since I have it, is it worth using or should I look into a different revolver?
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Re: My DR Gun

Post by RGK on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:53 am

Hi Tim
   I used my 4" 66 (shown above) in the Harry Reeves match at Perry a few years back and it worked fine. What you need to do is test the ammo you're intending to use at 50 yds first. If it groups, it's good to go. Remember that you have a shorter sighting radius, though, so follow-through is critical. The 4" guns are awesome. 
Bob

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Re: My DR Gun

Post by Dr.Don on Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:46 am

My 66 no-dash has a ramp with red plastic insert.  Sight, ramp, rib all appear to be one piece with the barrel.  No pin and no joint line where the sight meets the ramp.  So there are/were indeed variations.
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