bring gun up or down to bull

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bring gun up or down to bull

Post by orpheoet on Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:35 pm

I've been coming up to the bullseye and only today heard that the majority of shooters come down to the bull. Whats the reasoning on this?

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:10 pm

Wellll for me if I come up on the bull my fore-brain says "there it is, hold up!!".
If I'm coming down the bull doesn't interfere as much with what little shot process I have.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by dronning on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:16 pm

In sustained fire I start my trigger pull just as I am returning to the bull.  To keep everything the same (simple) in slow fire I enter the bull from the same direction as my sustained fire shot recovery.

- Dave

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by orpheoet on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:28 pm

I've been reasonably successful with how I've been doing it. I'm wondering if I need to change my process, or keep going with what I'm doing. I shot a personal best 2489 today....

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by Jon Eulette on Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:44 pm

Congratulations on the personal best. I use to shoot International and BE extensively. Most shooters always shoot better lowering into black instead of lifting into black. The body is more stable lowering the arm/muscles instead of lifting. I honestly think you'll see improvement if you change.
Jon

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by C.Perkins on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:17 pm

Long story short;
Inhaling raises your sight, while exhaling lowers your sight.
The process of recoil recovery is from above the target and bringing it back down to the target.

I inhale and settle above the target, then exhale a bit to center of target(or where ever you hold), then take a bit in just before I fire to get enough oxygen to get through the shot, whether it be slow, timed or rapid.

I usually take a small breath at shot #2 or #3 of timed fire.
I slowly exhale all the way through of rapid fire.

It is part of the process of coming down into the target from above because of the act of breathing.

Recoil is the same but not, you have no choice cause recoil goes up and over and you must come down to the target.

Keep it simple.
Again, YMMV;

Clarence

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by orpheoet on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:46 pm

Back to the drawing board..... In sustained fire I've been sort of looping around in a counterclockwise motion entering the black at around 5 o'clock. I'll give this from above process a try tomorrow. Thanks

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by Jon Eulette on Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:26 pm

Look for other recent post on applying trigger squeeze when settling into the black. You should have half your poundage applied when entering the black. Then keep on squeezing continuously. Works for sf, tf, and rf.
Makes a BIG difference.
Jon

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by Jack H on Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:36 am

There is a thing about SF "coming up" that intrigues me.  Your shoulder and arm are cued in to "up" and therefore staying up might work better. 

Of course T&R recovery is usually down.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by desben on Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:09 am

I shoot a lot of international (ISSF). For Standard Pistol's 20s and 10s series, you start at the "low-ready" position, hand pointing at 45 degrees down. Once the target turns, you have to raise to the bull. You're wasting time if you go above and come back down. This is even more true in "centerfire rapid fire" or "dueling" where you have only 3 seconds to raise, aim and press the trigger. Therefore, I keep things the same for slowfire and raise to the bull.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by Virgil Kane on Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:59 am

When I shoot iron sights I raise to the bull. With a red dot I lower to the bull.

YMMV


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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:04 am

If you really watch the top international shooters, they raise above then lower to the bull during the "load" period to set their arms position. There is something physiological about that.

When they raise to fire, they go right back to the aiming point that they were using before the string began.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:53 am

The part of this adventure that frightens me is when I see the shooter raise the firearm so high that they go above the berm.
That would be a bad time to have a neglegent discharge.   cherry

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by orpheoet on Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:02 am

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:The part of this adventure that frightens me is when I see the shooter raise the firearm so high that they go above the berm.
That would be a bad time to have a neglegent discharge.   cherry
This is exactly why I come up. The first time I ever shot Bullseye was at a regional where they were very adamant about not raising above the berm. So I just came up. I figured that was how everyone did it!

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:22 am

The simple thing to do is be aware of the backstop (one of the first rules of gun safety) & not go that high.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by Jon Eulette on Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:55 am

I strongly believe that BE shooting has a very specific typical way of executing shots! If you look at current and past national champions and high masters, they all typically shoot almost identically. In this case 99 percent lift above target and lower into the black. I wouldn't use international methods for BE because it's not the same. At my peak I was BE high master and international master in the 4 events/disciplines I shot. Shoot each sport specific to the sport, they don't mix. Sure you can get by, but if you want to really get good at BE, shoot it like the champions do; lower into the black.
Jon

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by Rob Kovach on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:11 pm

shoot it like the champions do; lower into the black.
+1
The part of this adventure that frightens me is when I see the shooter raise the firearm so high that they go above the berm.
......Nobody needs to raise that high.

To the top of the backer is as high as anybody needs to raise.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by orpheoet on Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:23 pm

I tried lowering into the black today and shot about the same scores so I guess changing won't be that big of a deal. I did notice the potential to be back on target faster during sustained fire. I've only recently been having success at the whole 'keep the trigger moving' principle and the change is throwing me off a little in rapid. However long term I do believe this will work to my advantage!

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by KevinB on Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:11 pm

Rob beat me to it, coming down only means starting just above the black ,not skyward.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by 243winxb on Tue Dec 15, 2015 4:37 pm

When the 45 recoils, the sights are above the 6 oclock hold. So i start above for Bullseye.  Old ISU required gun down.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

Post by kjanracing on Sun Jan 10, 2016 10:19 pm

In coming down, you are also releasing some muscle tension. I believe by real axing that little bit, you will have a more stable hold.

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Re: bring gun up or down to bull

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