Light primer strikes!?

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Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

Range Officer giving me fits. Good solid primer hits and gun goes bang of course but a lot of light strikes with no boom. Gun hasn't been shot enough for it to be fowling. Wolff 24 pound ILS mainspring in it. Gonna try 26 pounds next. Give me 30 minutes. I shoot at home.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Jon Eulette on Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:44 pm

Try factory ammo to see if only reloads are doing it. Also have seen fat rounds have a problem...check how they drop into chamber like posted above.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by C.Perkins on Sun Jan 03, 2016 8:57 pm

Did you go to a lighter hammer (different trigger kit).
Thinking lighter titanium firing pin and lighter/skeleton type hammer ?

I hate this problem solving stuff.
Cannot  get to sleep Smile

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:02 pm

Stock hammer. Never shot factory ammo. Too much $$.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by KenO on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:07 pm

I'd spring for a box of factory ammo, just to narrow it down to an ammo or gun problem.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by C.Perkins on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:07 pm

One last thing before I hit the sack.
List everything changed or modified from stock of this new from factory Range Officer.
Thanks

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Jerry Keefer on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:12 pm

I have a whole box full of small diameter 1911 firing pins...I'll sell real cheap...

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by C.Perkins on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:24 pm

Jerry Keefer wrote:I have a whole box full of small diameter 1911 firing pins...I'll sell real cheap...
How much Smile

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Rob Kovach on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:32 pm

If you try shooting the "weak hit" rounds a second time do they fire? I suspect that the reason we can't see anything wrong is because the first hit is seating the primer.

Still farting around with the ILS mainspring?

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by beeser on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:52 pm

I'm facing the same problem with my RO lately.  Borrowing the idea of the primer not being seated properly is it possible that residue in the primer pocket after multiple reloads is the culprit?  I didn't encounter the light strikes problem until after 7 reloads.  I just use corn cob media in a vibratory tumbler to clean cases.  The primer pockets have never been cleaned and I've noticed a lot of crud in there lately.  My gun is bone stock with the exception of some trigger work.  There has been about 2000 rounds put through it.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:59 pm

From stock to modified:

Ed Brown Sear
Wilson Combat Recoil Buffer
Polished top side and bottom side of trigger
Polished trigger bows and sturup
Wolff 18.5 recoi spring 
Wolff 26 pound ILS mainspring 
Wolff extra power firing pin spring
Target grips

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by jglenn21 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:06 pm

did you change your Crimp on these rounds?

I'm with James, I like to see what the bad rounds look like dropped into your barrel.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Jerry Keefer on Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:15 pm

I adjust my press so it actually flattens the primer slightly..
I have changed numerous small diameter pins, which were causing light hits, to standard 1911 firing pins.
I am not saying that is the OP's problem, because there are a number of other areas that could be at fault.. Once in a great while, I have found firing pins that do not protrude out of the stop far enough to receive a solid hammer strike. Make sure you are getting a solid full face hammer strike. A scalloped hammer face prevents low contact on the firing pin stop, and aids cycling when using mid range wadcutter loads.. I think it's a must modification on 22 conversions..

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by beeser on Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:20 pm

Apparently cases get shorter after repeated firing.  Is it possible that an excessively short case is the problem?

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:24 pm

Nope always used same crimp. I'll dig into the tool box tomorrow and find my micrometer, pull the barrel and check the drop in/head space.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:57 pm

I'm thinking, lighter mainspring, plus heavier firing pin spring might equal click instead of bang. Just from what I saw in clipping down an extra power firing spring. So since they're cheap I ordered three factory power firing springs from Wolff. We'll see if that helps. I'm loading the ammo on a Lee turret press. I do not have control over the seat depth of the primer.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Wobbley on Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:26 pm

If the standard weight spring doesn't cure it, I'd change to a steel firing pin. If you're not getting a good hit on the light spring it might not have enough inertia to fire the cap.  

If your press gives high primers you can reseat them using a hand held priming tool.  It isn't as dangerous as it's made out to be.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by rreid on Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:34 pm

You said you were using CCI primers last week and no problems, switched to Winchester and problems started. I think that's your answer, as long as you didn't also change something on the gun at the same time. Winchester primers are harder than some others. Federal primers are softest. I use Federals for my revolver that has had the mainspring lightened because it will only light off Winchester about 50%.  I've also noticed that Winchester primers can be harder to seat fully in some brands of brass. Since you're using mixed brass, you'll want to check your loaded rounds closely for high primers.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:31 am

rreid wrote:You said you were using CCI primers last week and no problems, switched to Winchester and problems started. I think that's your answer, as long as you didn't also change something on the gun at the same time. Winchester primers are harder than some others. Federal primers are softest. I use Federals for my revolver that has had the mainspring lightened because it will only light off Winchester about 50%.  I've also noticed that Winchester primers can be harder to seat fully in some brands of brass. Since you're using mixed brass, you'll want to check your loaded rounds closely for high primers.

Not really zero problems. I had maybe three out of 100 that didn't go bang. I didn't think much of it at the time.

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Light Primer Strikes

Post by Mark Patterson on Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:52 am

By the looks of your pictures it appears you are using multible kinds of brass and the primer depths could be different when doing this..The best fix for this is using FEREDAL PRIMERS. It's easy to see in the pictures you have different striking depths and it's probably different seating depths/multible brands of brass and maybe some trash left in the primer pockets from tumbling..I'd bet some Federal primers would solve this problem..mp

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:12 am

If it is in fact a primer depth issue and Federals would work better then I'll order an extra long firing pin like mentioned above. I have too much invested in the quantity of my Winchester primers. Also - Wolff says that their extra power firing pin spring is 45% more than factory. I won't know until the new factory springs get here but I'm hoping that solves it. If not then again I'll order a longer firing pin. I will measure the headspace this afternoon when I get home from work. No time this morning.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Jerry Keefer on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:21 am

Tim:H11 wrote:If it is in fact a primer depth issue and Federals would work better then I'll order an extra long firing pin like mentioned above. I have too much invested in the quantity of my Winchester primers. Also - Wolff says that their extra power firing pin spring is 45% more than factory. I won't know until the new factory springs get here but I'm hoping that solves it. If not then again I'll order a longer firing pin. I will measure the headspace this afternoon when I get home from work. No time this morning.

There is absolutley nothing, wrong with Winchester primers..That is not the issue.. As mentioned earlier, there should be a slight flattening to the primer cup from the seating pin.. All primers have a minimum required penetration depth for ignition.. If part of that depth is needlessly  used to collapse the cup outer shell, then,  erratic igniton is possible.. A long(er) firing pin is not the answer..A standard spec firing pin spring is all that is required.. A 1911 firing pin will extend well beyond the breechface when pushed to its internal limit.  Extra strength FP spring...Why??? In my 50+ years of 1911 involvement, mis fires are non existant in a standard spec 1911..

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:37 am

Jerry Keefer wrote:
Tim:H11 wrote:If it is in fact a primer depth issue and Federals would work better then I'll order an extra long firing pin like mentioned above. I have too much invested in the quantity of my Winchester primers. Also - Wolff says that their extra power firing pin spring is 45% more than factory. I won't know until the new factory springs get here but I'm hoping that solves it. If not then again I'll order a longer firing pin. I will measure the headspace this afternoon when I get home from work. No time this morning.

There is absolutley nothing, wrong with Winchester primers..That is not the issue.. As mentioned earlier, there should be a slight flattening to the primer cup from the seating pin.. All primers have a minimum required penetration depth for ignition.. If part of that depth is needlessly  used to collapse the cup outer shell, then,  erratic igniton is possible.. A long(er) firing pin is not the answer..A standard spec firing pin spring is all that is required.. A 1911 firing pin will extend well beyond the breechface when pushed to its internal limit.  Extra strength FP spring...Why??? In my 50+ years of 1911 involvement, mis fires are non existant in a standard spec 1911..

The extra power springs came with my recoil calibration pack from Wolff and were recommended so I put one in.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by jglenn21 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:19 am

don't see any reason for the extra power recoil spring nor the firing pin spring as Jerry noted..  if you are running 4.0 of BE , somewhere between a 14 and the stock 16lb recoil spring should be fine.

Winchester is all I have ever run in my pistol reloads and that covers quite a few years...

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by jglenn21 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:28 am

when you installed the Extra power firing pin spring was it difficult to install the FP stop?  I have seen some so long they would bin up when installing the stop

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

Post by Tim:H11 on Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:30 am

jglenn21 wrote:when you installed the Extra power firing pin spring was it difficult to install the FP stop?  I have seen some so long they would bin up when installing the stop

No not really. I just had an issue with the extractor wanting to drop down a little and keep the stop from sliding in all the way. Not a spring-binding issue.

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Re: Light primer strikes!?

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