Hardball factory Ammo?

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Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Tim:H11 on Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:40 pm

Since the CMP Service pistol match is only 30 shots (if I understand correctly) then does anyone just shoot factory hardball ammunition? I hear some of you just shoot factory ammunition for your Distingyished Revolver matches and since it looks like the same volume of shots fired I was curious about just finding a good factory load for the 45 so I don't have to do or get too far involved with it. I'm hoping to just use my Range Officer as both my wad gun and just change my sight settings for hardball ammo and shoot it in the CMP match.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by jmdavis on Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:59 pm

If you are already loading wadcutter ammo, why not just load some JHP or JSWC for Leg matches. I have shot a lot of factory hardball in a lot of guns. But there is no reason to do so for a match unless it is required.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Tim:H11 on Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:08 pm

jmdavis wrote:If you are already loading wadcutter ammo, why not just load some JHP or JSWC for Leg matches. I have shot a lot of factory hardball in a lot of guns. But there is no reason to do so for a match unless it is required.

Oh I'm just impatient and lazy sometimes and I thought if there was a factory load that shot decent then it's a lot easier to lay down the money for a box than it is to buy a bunch of components and test and re-test. Also I'm just thinking since I might not be able to afford a lot of components at once, every once in a while I could buy a box to practice before the hardball match. Since I shoot all irons anyway.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Jon Eulette on Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:53 pm

In the not to distant old days hardball was only legal ammo. If you practice with it you can shoot 280's all day long with decent pistol. Just requires a good consistent grip. The scores haven't improved much with the softer recoiling ammo in my opinion for most shooters. I say shoot what ya got!
Jon

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by jmdavis on Wed Jan 20, 2016 4:12 pm

Your right Jon. The scores have not goen up that much. I know a lot of people and team shooters who shot only hardball until they distinguished and managed to do quite well.


Last edited by jmdavis on Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by rreid on Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:35 pm

Here you go

http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=RZD&Product_Code=R723-A&Category_Code=ZBA-45ACP

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Christopher Miceli on Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:53 pm

For factory hardball I always used winchester white box. But with the new rules i recommend asym or atlanta arms 185jhp.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by john bickar on Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:37 am

It's not really "hardball" any more, but for EIC service pistol matches, I would recommend ASYM 185gn JHP.

As to whether scores have gone up or not, mine have gone up 10-15 points in a NMC. I'd say that's significant. It's like a different sport now.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:49 am

John I would expect your score to go up because you've mastered the fundamentals.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Christopher Miceli on Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:20 am

what i see/saw from going to JHP vs hardball was 1-3 points on the 50yrd.  I haven't shot any matches since 2014... so just based off limited practice.

For comparison I shot an EIC and a 2700 the same day with my iron site 1911 hardball gun. 
EIC 267-3   Winchester white box 230 fmj
NMC 282-5   Atlanta Arms 185jhp

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by BE Mike on Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:35 am

As someone who got distinguished with .45 ACP factory ball (230 gr.) and did some testing, I never could get any of it to group well in my gun at 50 yards. Factory match 185 gr. semi-wadcutter would group very well in the same gun, but ball...forget it. About the best it would do is 8 ring. I decided to quit worrying about it and continue to train. My slow fire scores would be in the mid to low 80's with ball. The short line was the make or break part of the match for me. After I got distinguished I started shooting an accurized Beretta. It would group very well at 50 yards. For some reason my scores remained about the same. With today's rules, you can buy or reload ammo that will shoot accurately in your pistol, so go ahead and use what groups the best. I still think the 4 lb. trigger is the biggest limiting factor. If you get a great trigger job, that 4 lb. trigger will feel a lot lighter. If your goal is to get distinguished, then you must focus on that. I used to shoot 2700's with my ball gun. I didn't count on placing very well because I used those matches as a training tool. Keep training with that ball gun and you'll get there.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by DeweyHales on Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:25 am

BE Mike wrote:If your goal is to get distinguished, then you must focus on that. I used to shoot 2700's with my ball gun. I didn't count on placing very well because I used those matches as a training tool. Keep training with that ball gun and you'll get there.
This is what I did as well. It worked perfectly.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:15 pm

+1 ^^^^^

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by C-Train on Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:52 pm

When I shot 1911's in CMP matches I always shot factory ammo. Luckily I had a very large supply of my grandfathers leftover NM .45acp issued ammo from the matches during the 50's-60's. When I used that up I bought Black Hills 230-gr FMJ and it performed very well for me.  The recommendations for Asym and Atlanta Arms 185-gr JHP are both good choices now that we can shoot hollow points. Federal Gold Medal Match may be worth trying a box of as well.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by LenV on Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:08 pm

I load my own ammo so I don't have much experience with store bought. I sometimes wonder how my reloads would compare to a quality ammo manufacturer match bullets. I have been looking at Nosler match bullets and I think if I was to ever spring for a box then I would give these a try. This is the same bullet I am loading myself.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/380265/nosler-match-grade-ammunition-45-acp-185-grain-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-50

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Christopher Miceli on Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:20 pm

That nosler says 980fps.   Shocked

Len, you ever tried any 185 jhp reloads?

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Tim:H11 on Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:02 pm

DeweyHales wrote:
BE Mike wrote:If your goal is to get distinguished, then you must focus on that. I used to shoot 2700's with my ball gun. I didn't count on placing very well because I used those matches as a training tool. Keep training with that ball gun and you'll get there.
This is what I did as well. It worked perfectly.

I recently set my trigger to be clicking just above 4lbs. That way I can use the one gun either as a wad gun or as a service pistol. Can't afford two right now. But I really like having (and shoot better with) this adjustable heal rest on my grip. LOVE the suport. But this evening I took it off. Dry firing feels good. But I know I'll have to learn to control the recoil differently with out that added support. I can't shoot CMP with it so.... Sad

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by LenV on Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:26 am

Christopher Miceli wrote:That nosler says 980fps.   Shocked

Len, you ever tried any 185 jhp reloads?

Chris, I shoot a lot of "my" load 185gr JHP's. I have not found much difference between Nosler or Hornady so I load whichever one I have on hand. I have quite a bit of the Nosler so that is what I have been doing lately. My load of 4.2gr BE should be doing around 800fps so definitely less then factory. That was one of the reasons I wanted to compare them. I have also been using the Speer 185gr FMJ.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:21 am

Best 5 shot group I've ever had was with TZZ Match, but then again, the second 5 shot string was one of my worst...lol.

I've taken Jon's advice and with quick reward.  I'm trying to get my reloads to be as soft as possible.

Hot stuff.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by LenV on Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:58 pm

Christopher Miceli wrote:For factory hardball I always used winchester white box. But with the new rules i recommend asym or atlanta arms 185jhp.

Chris asked me to do a test to see if there was any noticeable difference between the 2 loads that He recommends and ammo that I load. I was able to make it to the 25 yd line today and did a little testing. I had a lot of different ammo to test today for the .45 and the .38 super so I never made it to the 50yd line. I will test everything of the .45 over again when it gets a little nicer. My preliminary conclusion is that there wasn't much difference at 25 yds. I am testing everything I load with Bullseye because it is the only powder I have enough of to play with. I wasn't thrilled by any of the test groups and will try several different pistols and loads next time.


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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Feb 18, 2016 2:16 pm

An old master told me "you can shoot lubed rocks at 25 yards and get a good group, but on the long line, you really need ammo that works for your gun"

As far as factory EIC legal ammo, the ASYM is the best in MY gun.

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Re: Hardball factory Ammo?

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