S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

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S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 11:38 am

Im trying to work up a load for my smith model 19 revolver for training/50foot/25 yard shooting. I don't get to practice at 50 yards...  so at this time Im just working on a short line load. Doing research on this and other sites, and reading a few of the manuals, it looks like in the 3.0-3.5 grains might put me in the ballbark. Has anyone shot this combo in a S&W revolver? Some say they like a little more speed with the smiths. At this point Im sticking with this bullet because I already have a thousand or so all ready cast up, and I am thinking of finding some of the rem HBWC when I start thinking of testing for the long line. Ive read most of the threads here but most are focused on the higher speed DR loads. Any real world advice for me for bullseye loads for this combo??  Thanks

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by Wobbley on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:10 pm

You should find something in the 3.0 to 3.2 range.  3.5 would be an upper limit.  There are better powders than 231 in that combo.


Last edited by Wobbley on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : To correct 3.9 to 3.0)

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:14 pm

Wobbley wrote:You should find something in the 3.9 to 3.2 range.  3.5 would be an upper limit.  There are better powders than 231 in that combo.

Ya I see a lot like the WST, and also BE.  Haven't been able to find WST, and my stash of BE is being reserved for the 45 till I can find more.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by Wobbley on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:28 pm

Try TiteGroup.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by james r chapman on Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:16 pm

2.7 gr Bullseye, or 3.1 grains 231/hp38 or 2.7 gr WST

should get you going.

That was a great wadcutter, don't understand why Lyman discontinued it.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:21 pm

james r chapman wrote:2.7 gr Bullseye, or 3.1 grains 231/hp38 or 2.7 gr WST

should get you going.

That was a great wadcutter, don't understand why Lyman discontinued it.

Thanks. Back in the day [60's and 70's] my dad shot a ton of them! Still have the mold that ill fire up once my stash gets low.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by desben on Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:28 am

I now load HBWC with 2.9gr of HP-31 with very good results. I started with 3.1; a fine load but more recoil. When I was using DEWC, I needed a little more powder to get good results.

I've also had good success with Hi-Skor 700x. I think it used to be quite popular back in the days. For BBWC, I was loading at 2.9, which is the low-end recommended by Lyman. I have a lot of data for this powder if you are interested.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by Wobbley on Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:34 am

Could you please share your 700X data?

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by desben on Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:44 pm

Hopefully that's readable by everyone. Just a collection of data points from various manuals.

700x for 38 special wadcutters




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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:01 am

Well I loaded up some at 2.8, 3.0, 3.2, and 3.4gr of hp38/231. Ill give them a shot, and see what it likes. I loaded a few slightly deeper then I normaly do to see how they react. Mostly I load them out a bit so the roll crimp fits in the crimp grove. As for the crimp, Its a mid road crimp... not too light, and not too aggressive..  Ill see what this does.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by james r chapman on Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:09 am

You can do that, but, its general practice to seat them flush with the case mouth and roll crimp to prevent bullet movement.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Mon Feb 08, 2016 10:47 am

james r chapman wrote:You can do that, but, its general practice to seat them flush with the case mouth and roll crimp to prevent bullet movement.

Most ive talked to seem to seat them out at the crimp grove unless they are being shot out of a model 52.  What advantage would seating it flush for a revolver provide?

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by LenV on Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:32 am

The load data and test results were figured with a flush seat. The chamber pressure will be reduced with your longer seat. I have no idea how much it will be reduced but enough to change MV and POI. I suspect the accuracy probably won't be a lot different unless the extra depth might give it a more consistent chamber pressure. And when you get a 52 you will ask yourself "why didn't I seat these flush?". Smile

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by james r chapman on Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:41 pm

S1120, if you talk to PPC shooters and those who shoot factory winchester/Remington/Federal wadcutters loads, they will all be shooting flush seated. Not that your wrong, its just general convention. The only ones I knew who loaded them out were trying to gain a speed reloading advantage. Chamfering cylinders is the proper recourse.

Jim

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by desben on Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:53 pm

OldMaster65 wrote:The load data and test results were figured with a flush seat.

Not always the case. If you look at the data I posted above for 700x, the majority of the loads are NOT flush (1.160). Lyman in particular is very long at 1.317; but this could be due to the little button in front of their bullet.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by james r chapman on Mon Feb 08, 2016 3:16 pm

Flush would refer to the shoulder

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:42 pm

Thanks for the tips guys. It's always welcome!! I've seen a lot loaded longer and my dad always loaded them as such. I'll add that to my testing loads.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Wed Feb 10, 2016 3:29 pm

Ok lots of learning and good info today!!! Went to the range and tested my loads. I ran 2.8-3.4gr of hp38/231 in 2 gr steps, one group seated flush, the other out at the crimp grove. If I had a real good, or a real bad group I reshot it to make sure is isn't a fluke. I shot 2 handed with the butt of the grip supported. First I learned that it shoots better supported... So I have some training to do!! That being said, the best groups were 2.8gr seated flush, and 3.2 gr set out at the crimp grove.. Now the Logic in my brain tells me that's becouse the the fact that the flush seating will raise the pressure over seating it out a bit. That being the two are probably close in pressure. The 3.2 out had 4 in a ragged hole, with one flyer about 1.5" away. The 2.8 had about a 1.75" group. The other loads were shotgun patterns.... The odd part is that I happanded to have a old box of "western " wadcutters match ammo and used that as a control. That shot the worst of it all.

Anyways... So for you guys much more experienced then me... What do you think? 2.8 flush, or 3.2 seated proud?? I tell you the 2.8 was a nice soft load recoil wise!

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by Wobbley on Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:00 pm

Shoot the 2.8.  It likes it and the .4 grains will add up to a few more boxes over the years.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by james r chapman on Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:36 pm

2.8 flush.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by Telewreck on Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:58 pm

Was that at 25 yards?

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:16 pm

No 50 feet.

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

Post by s1120 on Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:11 am

Just a update on this post. I got to get out and shoot this load with my model 19 this weekend at the league shoot. It was my best center fire score ever by a LONG shot!!!  I killed my previous by almost double. This was also being that I don't shoot the revolver as much as my other guns, so I was vary happy. I think the old flexi flyer 45 is going to rest for a bit, and ill spend more time on the 38 for now. It was still about 50 points off my 22, and I had a few flyers, but I get that with 22 also... its purely the loose nut behind the grip.  Smile

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Re: S&W revolver Lyman 358495 WC with HP38/231. Any expearance?

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