Best Value .22

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Best Value .22

Post by cjmill87 on 3/1/2016, 6:09 am

I'm sure this has been asked before but my searching didn't really reveal the answers I'm looking for.  I'm just starting out in BE and am looking for a .22 that I can learn the game with and that will take me as far as I want to go.  I'm looking for top accuracy and reliability as well as manufacturer support.  I'm not opposed to spending $ on the high dollar pistols but is there value with them?  I am a firm subscriber to buy once, cry once but before I shed any tears I want to make sure I'm not leading myself down the wrong path.  Any insight and assistance is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by AllAces on 3/1/2016, 7:29 am

M41.
Strong opinions to follow.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by SW-52 on 3/1/2016, 7:34 am

High standard supermatic trophy,citation or victor(h.s have delicious and smooth triggers),s-w 41(used,new $1200+), izh(500.00+ used). i had a ruger,but i sold because for clean is a head pain.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by jmdavis on 3/1/2016, 7:43 am

If you have a 45 with a good trigger, a Nelson conversion could be a good starting point. Particularly if a Distinguished a Pistol badge is among your purposes. The good conversions are plenty accurate.

Ruger Mark II's have been known to shoot very well. But the newer pistols seem to have som QC issues. I watched a shooter use one in a distinguished 22 match and score a 295. If I were starting from scratch today, I would seriously consider the Trailside Xesse from LGI with one if his triggers.

An older High Standard Victor can be great. I have one that is my favorite iron sight pistol. It would be equally good with a dot on it.

Finally you have the other "I" pistols. Benelli, Pardini, Morini, and Hammerli. All are high quality and will outshoot most shooters. But when they end with an "I" the orice is high. 

If you can meet some bullseye shooters and try their guns. It will let you make a better informed choice.

I personally have a Ruger Mark1, a High Standard Victor, a Benelli MP 90/95 and a Pardini SP. On a good day any of them will and all of them have cleaned a sustained fire target. My personal best of a 100/10x was shot with the Pardini. But my most consistent scores have been with the Benelli and the High Standard.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by Wobbley on 3/1/2016, 9:09 am

Any of the pistols mentioned will do you well.  But of those my choice would be a S&W 41.  Preferably one made in the 1960 to 1980 era.  Get one with a 5.5 inch barrel if you can but the longer barrel is OK.  

My reason for that era is they were fitted up better at the factory.  Spare parts are still available and there are aftermarket accessories.  A lot of the European pistols have parts availability issues.

Put a red dot on it and it is competitive pretty much out of the box.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by carykiteboarder on 3/1/2016, 10:17 am

For .22LR, there are many, many choices with accuracy beyond mere mortal skill levels.  The decision should revolve around the quality of the trigger and comfort of the gun in your hand.

If you buy certain guns (like Pardini), you get an exquisite trigger out of the box.  With other guns, you send it to an "artist" who will fashion it into something exquisite.  (Like sending a S&W M41 to KC Crawford)  Buy the best trigger you can afford.

For comfort in-hand, there's only one way to find out.  For most of the specific guns people will recommend, there will be aftermarket grip options to better adapt to your hand if stock grips are not quite right.  There are also custom grip makers.  If your hands are extraordinarily large or small, try to get advice from a High Master who has similar size hands.

Lastly, choosing a .22 is in the context of what else you shoot too.  If you plan to shoot Bullseye and use a 1911 for .45, the grip angle of that gun is very "upright".  It doesn't bother some people but others don't like having their .22 and .45 with dramatically different grip angles.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by Wobbley on 3/1/2016, 10:55 am

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Re: Best Value .22

Post by dstates on 3/1/2016, 12:18 pm

I'd buy my Ruger MkIII again if I had to start all over.  It shoots great and is easy to get parts for or work on yourself.

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Re: Best Value .22

Post by LenV on 3/1/2016, 1:14 pm

This one. High Standard Victor with everything you need except the dot of your choice. I am very tempted to hit the buy now button myself. NFI

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=544623521




Last edited by OldMaster66 on 3/1/2016, 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a picture)
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by rich.tullo on 3/1/2016, 2:04 pm

I really like 22lr conversions a 1911 with a # 2.5 trigger , I have two and just ordered a Nelson. So far the Chambers SSG is the best. A little tricky to get perfect but once they are set up right they will run forever. 

HS are very good just have to find a good one, some have very high mileage. 

I loved the Benelli Mp95 but it was unreliable for me. 

Smith and Wesson is nice has a superior trigger to the 1911 but unforgiving. 

I have seen Dave Lange's 208s shoot amazing scores. 300s, 895+

I have shot well with an Xesse but the quality is inferior to the 208.

AW93s some love them (Brian Zinns) other not so much better to get a IZH35 first and then see if AW93 is for you. The AW 93 is a IZH 37 clone, far superior quality but the same design. 

My best score with the Benelli was 272 

My best score with the Xesse was 267

My best score with the M41 was 270 

My best score with a 1911 so far is 276 and many 270's and really non of my 1911 scores include clean or almost clean time and rapid fire scores whereas the Xesse and M41 had 95s or better. 

I did a statistical study of my league results over two years an found I could potentially shoot 300 most pistols and any of these that we are talking about theoretically can shoot a 300 gallery course. And I rarely shoot a conversion with Match Ammo. CCI SV. With the Benelli I cleaned the SF target but I got so excited I screwed the pooch. 

However I found with my results using a Marvel which I sold to buy an M41, my max was 298 but my standard deviation was half the others. I attribute the performance to the 1911 platform and the very low rate of alibis relative to all of the above.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by rich.tullo on 3/1/2016, 2:19 pm

carykiteboarder wrote:For .22LR, there are many, many choices with accuracy beyond mere mortal skill levels.  The decision should revolve around the quality of the trigger and comfort of the gun in your hand.

If you buy certain guns (like Pardini), you get an exquisite trigger out of the box.  With other guns, you send it to an "artist" who will fashion it into something exquisite.  (Like sending a S&W M41 to KC Crawford)  Buy the best trigger you can afford.

For comfort in-hand, there's only one way to find out.  For most of the specific guns people will recommend, there will be aftermarket grip options to better adapt to your hand if stock grips are not quite right.  There are also custom grip makers.  If your hands are extraordinarily large or small, try to get advice from a High Master who has similar size hands.

Lastly, choosing a .22 is in the context of what else you shoot too.  If you plan to shoot Bullseye and use a 1911 for .45, the grip angle of that gun is very "upright".  It doesn't bother some people but others don't like having their .22 and .45 with dramatically different grip angles.
I sent my 41 to KC and I could not agree more by far the nicest trigger out of any 22lr pistol I have shot excluding a Madore Citation my friend has. And it groups about 1/2 inch better.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by rreid on 3/1/2016, 7:22 pm

Another thing to consider is the price of the ammo.  If your gun of choice won't run on CCI, Aguila or some other relatively cheap ammo, how much will you have to spend to feed it?  For the difference between a case of CCI and a case of Eley, you could buy a couple Rugers or Buckmarks.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by Jwhelan939 on 3/1/2016, 8:04 pm

I have a marvel unit 1 on a dedicated lower. It is a great gun, but I always go back to my Volquartsen Scorpion. It just fits me perfectly. Smooth trigger, perfect balance, amazing accuracy, and the volthane grips are the perfect contour for my mits.

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Re: Best Value .22

Post by Doug Tiedt on 3/3/2016, 9:51 pm

+1 on asking others about shooters about their guns.  When anyone, but particularly a beginner,
asks about mine, I reply with my honest opinions and then ask if they would like to send a few rounds
downrange.  A couple of weeks ago a guy that could outshoot me if he was blindfolded
asked about my gun, we chatted about it and I offered to let him shoot it.

Your money and your right to buy what you want with it.  But before you lay down $2K+ for a
top grade 22, are you sure that is the one you are going to want some years from now when
(hopefully) it will make a difference to you?  For someone starting out, the fundamentals of
shooting determine their score, not a $500 vs $5000 pistol.

You may want to consider a $500 .22 pistol + red dot to start with.  When you are skilled enough
that the gun will make a difference, you will have developed plenty of opinions of what you need.
Then if you don't want to keep the pistol, you sell it to another beginner on this list.

I certainly agree with your philosophy of buying quality equipment or tools.  But in terms of .22s,
a $500 gun will take you pretty far, even better if you can buy a used on in good shape.

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Re: Best Value .22

Post by BE Mike on 3/4/2016, 9:46 am

My advice is don't settle. Get a great pistol at the outset, if you can afford it.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by cjmill87 on 3/4/2016, 10:56 am

Thank you all for your assistance.  I wanted to update this and hopefully add a little context.  I am looking for a pistol that has open sights so I can pursue the 22 Distinguished badge.  Ideally this pistol would also have a convenient solution for mounting a dot if/when I am successful.  I understand that my skills right now are definitely the weak link but I try to avoid doing multiple upgrades and instead want to go for a pistol that I can learn on but also grow into and not have to replace.  I have looked further into some of the models suggested but am wondering on the long term reliability of some of them, specifically the ones that require gunsmiths to "tune" to get the best out of them.  I understand this is very subjective but I guess I'm looking for one that will consistently outperform me for as long as I am shooting.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by james r chapman on 3/4/2016, 11:21 am

Simply an older Ruger MK series target and get the trigger worked on.
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by r_zerr on 3/4/2016, 11:22 am

CJ,

Nobody else has mentioned them as another alternative. If you should come across a Browning Medalist. or International Medalist (very much pre-Buckmark), it is worth purchasing and owning in my opinion. I had one put in my hands and it is a very well made, and accurate pistol. Although I can only speak for mine and a friends' pistols, they have been flawlessly running pistols, to includes a new triple-K magazines bought for them that did not need any tuning to work.  Some of the prices for them suggest that they are undervalued for what they are.  

-Ron

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Re: Best Value .22

Post by LenV on 3/4/2016, 11:35 am

I think it is great that you brought up the older Brownings. One of my favorite pistols back when I could still focus on my front sight was my Browning Challenger. These pistols are super accurate with great triggers and like you said they are under valued on Gunbroker. You can still pick up a nice pistol for a fair price. My son stole mine (with my permission) but I still get to shoot it from time to time and it still brings back memories.

Challenger:
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Re: Best Value .22

Post by 1joel1 on 3/4/2016, 2:01 pm

How about the old Baretta 89 Target. I believe that those were nice and they are close to m41 in price.

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Re: Best Value .22

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