Slow fire cadence

Go down

Slow fire cadence

Post by kjanracing on 3/8/2016, 9:17 pm

How long do you shooters take to get your 10 slow fire shots off? Is there a time or cadence you follow? I'm usually the last shooter finished by a couple minutes it seems, usually around 8 minutes.  Is there any guideline or suggestion for time between shots? How do you determine when to start the next shot?
Thanks, Kurt.
avatar
kjanracing

Posts : 179
Join date : 2015-02-17
Location : Arvada, Colorado

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/8/2016, 9:52 pm

Novice perspective.  I follow my shot plan.  Sometimes it take more attempts than others to get quality shots and in the end I would rather have many great shots than compromise to keep a time schedule.  I don't sweat the time and have not gone over so far, but use more time than most. 

The Master/High Masters will give better advice.


Last edited by JayhawkNavy02 on 3/9/2016, 9:02 pm; edited 3 times in total
avatar
JayhawkNavy02

Posts : 699
Join date : 2014-03-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by orpheoet on 3/8/2016, 9:56 pm

The best advice I ever got for slow fire was this. After raising the pistol the gun should go off in about the time it takes to fire the first shot of a timed fire string. If it doesn't I bring the gun down and start over. Frankly the more times i restart shots in slow fire the higher my score usually is. I typically get them all of in around 6-7 minutes.
avatar
orpheoet

Posts : 700
Join date : 2014-07-29
Age : 50
Location : Lakewood, Oh

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by gweber on 3/9/2016, 9:48 am

I follow my shot plan. I abort the shot if something doesn't feel/look right and start over. Usual time is 6-8mins depending on the day. The main key is to not force the shot.

gweber

Posts : 25
Join date : 2016-01-23
Location : Valley City, ND

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by s1120 on 3/9/2016, 9:50 am

orpheoet wrote:The best advice I ever got for slow fire was this. After raising the pistol the gun should go off in about the time it takes to fire the first shot of a timed fire string. If it doesn't I bring the gun down and start over. Frankly the more times i restart shots in slow fire the higher my score usually is. I typically get them all of in around 6-7 minutes.

I am in NO WAY a expert!!!  But that's what I do also. Im still working out my shooting plan... But I find I do best when I treat each shot as the first shot in a TF string.

s1120

Posts : 336
Join date : 2012-09-03
Age : 53
Location : Columbia county NY

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by john bickar on 3/9/2016, 1:33 pm

I find that the amount of time a SF string takes me is a symptom, rather than a cause, of how I'm shooting. If I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, 5-7 minutes for a 10-shot string.

If I'm struggling, forcing the pace won't help.
avatar
john bickar

Posts : 977
Join date : 2011-07-09
Location : Menlo Park, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by Jon Eulette on 3/9/2016, 1:53 pm

john bickar wrote:I find that the amount of time a SF string takes me is a symptom, rather than a cause, of how I'm shooting. If I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, 5-7 minutes for a 10-shot string.

If I'm struggling, forcing the pace won't help.

Agree 100%. When its not working you have to analyze before going forward. I witness too many shooters ( marksman, sharpshooter & expert) shooting way too fast. When I complete a fast 10 shot string of slow fire I'm not normally or even close to being 1st one done. What that tells me repeatedly is that most shooters are just shooting too fast. The results on their targets also backs up my thoughts that they are shooting too fast. In many cases I notice that I'm changing my 1st mag and shooters are finished with 10 shots. So zi tjink most would benefit from slowing their pace.
Jon
avatar
Jon Eulette

Posts : 2088
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by Ghillieman on 3/9/2016, 2:49 pm

Your shot process dictates how long it takes you to shoot the slow fire stage.

If you take longer than about 15 seconds to squeeze the shot off you are holding too long and should start over.
avatar
Ghillieman

Posts : 406
Join date : 2012-02-14
Location : TEXAS

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by john bickar on 3/9/2016, 6:24 pm

Jon Eulette wrote: So zi tjink most would benefit 

It's a bummer you got stung by a bee while making that post Razz
avatar
john bickar

Posts : 977
Join date : 2011-07-09
Location : Menlo Park, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by Jon Eulette on 3/9/2016, 6:41 pm

john bickar wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote: So zi tjink most would benefit 

It's a bummer you got stung by a bee while making that post Razz

LOL.
Small phone screen + small keyboard buttons + old eyes = bee sting :p)
Jon
avatar
Jon Eulette

Posts : 2088
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by rreid on 3/9/2016, 8:57 pm

I usually get done in about 6 min. No particular cadence or anything, it just seems to work out that way.  That being said, I hate to be the last one done. I find it distracting when everyone else is done and they're chattering and moving around.  For me, what determines how long I take is how many times I have to abort.
avatar
rreid

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-02-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by rfmiller on 3/10/2016, 11:02 am

rreid wrote:I usually get done in about 6 min. No particular cadence or anything, it just seems to work out that way.  That being said, I hate to be the last one done. I find it distracting when everyone else is done and they're chattering and moving around.  For me, what determines how long I take is how many times I have to abort.
Too bad other shooters are chattering when others aren't done shooting.  I also find it distracting and in very poor taste.

rfmiller

Posts : 103
Join date : 2012-08-19
Age : 65
Location : Missouri

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by Jblaw on 3/10/2016, 8:03 pm

I double up on ear protection when I shoot. Foam 3m earplugs, then a set of muffs. I can hear the commands and buzzer, but that's about it. I'm in my own little world that way.

Jblaw

Posts : 9
Join date : 2015-01-18
Location : Northeast

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by jmdavis on 3/14/2016, 10:05 am

rfmiller wrote:
rreid wrote:I usually get done in about 6 min. No particular cadence or anything, it just seems to work out that way.  That being said, I hate to be the last one done. I find it distracting when everyone else is done and they're chattering and moving around.  For me, what determines how long I take is how many times I have to abort.
Too bad other shooters are chattering when others aren't done shooting.  I also find it distracting and in very poor taste.

Watch a shooting world cup final sometime. And yet the Olympic committee wants that kind of thing.
avatar
jmdavis

Posts : 1260
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Virginia

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by rfmiller on 3/14/2016, 3:48 pm

Yes, marketing can trump what's good for the shooter (or athlete) sometimes.  I have gotten much better at "tuning out" what is going on around me.  It just seems that if the crowds at golf matches can be quiet, other people can too.

rfmiller

Posts : 103
Join date : 2012-08-19
Age : 65
Location : Missouri

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by Keyholed on 3/22/2016, 6:31 am

Ghillieman wrote:Your shot process dictates how long it takes you to shoot the slow fire stage.

If you take longer than about 15 seconds to squeeze the shot off you are holding too long and should start over.

15 seconds! With my slow fire, if the gun doesn't go off 3 or 4 seconds after settling down to the black, I *should* start over. I say *should* because forcing the shot is a horrible temptation. When I'm doing it right, I can get five or six shots done in about two minutes. Other times, I have to wait pretty long to see a decent shot.

To answer the OP, I try to shoot the first ten 10s I see. That is, shots with nothing wrong with them:

The dot's arc of movement isn't centered? Abort.
Dot's moving too much? Abort.
Conscious effort on the trigger? Abort.
Starting/stopping the trigger? Abort.
Lost focus on my target*? Abort.
Holding longer than 4 seconds? Abort.

When I follow this, I shoot an awful lot of 10s and close 9s. The hard part is actually following through and committing to the process. I frequently slip and try to shoot 10s--which leads to 7s. I'm trying to manage that by training myself to differentiate between the dot and the result. In other words, the dot tells me where I'm aiming. What it doesn't tell me is where the shot will be aimed when it breaks.

*By "lost focus on the target" I mean "thinking about anything but the current shot". My target, my score, the outcome, the other guy's target, the weather, the conditions, etc.

Keyholed

Posts : 103
Join date : 2015-08-05

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by kjanracing on 3/22/2016, 7:55 am

Thanks for that! I'll try to use it.
avatar
kjanracing

Posts : 179
Join date : 2015-02-17
Location : Arvada, Colorado

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by brassmaster on 3/28/2016, 7:07 pm

Some very good advice on this subject within the posts. To add my two cents, I'll relate some advice my main mentor, Ed Williams gave me years ago. One day at the range I was practicing my slow fire and was unaware that Ed was standing behind the firing line watching me. After a string of fire, he stepped up and tapped me on the shoulder, after being startled, I told Ed that I did not know that he was watching me.
Then comes Ed's sage advice. "I've been watching you and I'll give you some advice, if you want it?" I'd be happy with any advice you would give me. " Son, I've been watching you and the length of time you hold on the target before breaking the shot. The longer you hold it, the worse it gets!" Ed was a master, distinguished, three time winner of the Anheuser Bush Trophy, Elihau Root,  Meleigh Cup Team, etc., etc. So, I certainly took his advice to heart and over the years when helping beginning Precision Pistol Shooters, I never hesitate to plagiarize Ed when I see them holding too long. Unfortunately for our sport, Ed left the range last year, he was a great friend, teacher and mentor to many.
avatar
brassmaster

Posts : 114
Join date : 2014-07-13
Location : Foothills of the Allegheny Mountains of West Virginia

http://www.whitehorsecenter.org, click on Brassmasters

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by john bickar on 3/28/2016, 9:49 pm

brassmaster wrote:Unfortunately for our sport, Ed left the range last year, he was a great friend, teacher and mentor to many.

Amen to that.
avatar
john bickar

Posts : 977
Join date : 2011-07-09
Location : Menlo Park, CA

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by SMBeyer on 3/28/2016, 10:45 pm

Keyholed wrote:
Ghillieman wrote:Your shot process dictates how long it takes you to shoot the slow fire stage.

If you take longer than about 15 seconds to squeeze the shot off you are holding too long and should start over.

15 seconds! With my slow fire, if the gun doesn't go off 3 or 4 seconds after settling down to the black, I *should* start over. I say *should* because forcing the shot is a horrible temptation. When I'm doing it right, I can get five or six shots done in about two minutes. Other times, I have to wait pretty long to see a decent shot.

To answer the OP, I try to shoot the first ten 10s I see. That is, shots with nothing wrong with them:

The dot's arc of movement isn't centered? Abort.
Dot's moving too much? Abort.
Conscious effort on the trigger? Abort.
Starting/stopping the trigger? Abort.
Lost focus on my target*? Abort.
Holding longer than 4 seconds? Abort.

When I follow this, I shoot an awful lot of 10s and close 9s. The hard part is actually following through and committing to the process. I frequently slip and try to shoot 10s--which leads to 7s. I'm trying to manage that by training myself to differentiate between the dot and the result. In other words, the dot tells me where I'm aiming. What it doesn't tell me is where the shot will be aimed when it breaks.

*By "lost focus on the target" I mean "thinking about anything but the current shot". My target, my score, the outcome, the other guy's target, the weather, the conditions, etc.
Wonder what's for dinner?  Abort
What am I going to do at work tomorrow? Abort

etc. etc.

Matches aren't won by shooting good shots.  They'er won by avoiding bad shot's.

Scott
avatar
SMBeyer

Posts : 320
Join date : 2011-12-07
Age : 46
Location : Southern Illinois

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by orpheoet on 4/4/2016, 9:42 am

Both of these 5 shot strings took about 2 minutes. Personally when I am confident that I'm making good shots I keep rolling. My best targets are usually pretty quick. Also I try to not look at the target through the spotting scope when I'm shooting. I find it distracting....
avatar
orpheoet

Posts : 700
Join date : 2014-07-29
Age : 50
Location : Lakewood, Oh

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by Froneck on 6/3/2016, 5:59 am

Again it's what the shooter is comfortable with. When attending the AMU schools at Perry it was stressed that the shot should not take longer than 20 seconds, Supposedly that is the limit the body can withstand. I reached master class by shooting slow fire in about 8 minutes. My first time on the master relay (all masters including the now added High Masters, that class wasn't at the time, shoot on the same relay at Perry) The shooter to my right completed the 10 shots is less time that it took me to shoot my first magazine of 5 (I think I was getting ready to shoot my 3rd shot), returned to his seat and sat down. I remember thinking to myself this guy isn't very good and hope all his shots are on his target. He scored me so I didn't see his target and when we shot the second string he did the same thing! My interest peaked as to how bad he did so I looked at his target when we went down range, 100-6x !!!! I found out it was Lenordsen (hope I spelled it right) and he won the .22 match that year!

Froneck

Posts : 869
Join date : 2014-04-05
Age : 71

Back to top Go down

Re: Slow fire cadence

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum