At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

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At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/20/2016, 4:47 pm

Like the title says, I have tried a 3.8 gr BE with a 200 gr swc.  No go..My Range Officer will not function this load...Empty cart comes half way out and then jams.

The RO has a 10 lb recoil spring in it as well as I got a new MSH with 19lb spring.  I thought for sure the new MSH and spring would work. 

I'm now at a loss...LEt me add something that may help.  My Marine Load 185gr JHP nosler and VV 4.5 N 310 works like a charm for a while but then starts to act up as the gun gets dirty.

Any Help?  Like the title says  I'm at a loss.  I thought up the BE load to 4.0 gr and try but some here have said the 3.8 works in the RO they have.

I will mention it's not that important I shoot super light loads........The Marine load is super light to me..I could go hotter if needed on any load and be more than happy.

Joe


Last edited by lablover on 3/20/2016, 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/20/2016, 4:57 pm

Extractor or ejector issue? I'll let someone more qualified comment.


Last edited by Christopher Miceli on 3/20/2016, 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by dronning on 3/20/2016, 5:06 pm

Is the gun locking back on the last round?  If it is I'd suspect the extractor adjustment or even dirt in or around it. Possibly but not as likely the ejector.

How many rounds before you start having trouble with the 185's?  

When the gun is apart with no springs or barrel in does the slide move smoothly along the frame or does it get tight in spots.  My buddies Les Baer slide started to tighten up where he almost couldn't rack the slide.  We could not see where it was tight so I honed it with some J-B non-embedding bore paste.  It cleaned right up and he's had no issues since.

Hope one of these helps.

- Dave
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/20/2016, 5:09 pm

dronning wrote:Is the gun locking back on the last round?  If it is I'd suspect the extractor adjustment or even dirt in or around it. Possibly but not as likely the ejector.

How many rounds before you start having trouble with the 185's?  

When the gun is apart with no springs or barrel in does the slide move smoothly along the frame or does it get tight in spots.  My buddies Les Baer slide started to tighten up where he almost couldn't rack the slide.  We could not see where it was tight so I honed it with some J-B non-embedding bore paste.  It cleaned right up and he's had no issues since.

Hope one of these helps.

- Dave
Dave, Next time I have it apart I will check the slide fit.  It has a tiny bit of wobble when together so not sure.  How many rounds before the 185's act up..>Well, not sure, I had not cleaned it from the last trip when everything didn't work but will guess 40-50 shots  Kind of funny, I can almost feel the slide going back and forth with every shot.  I will give her a good scrubbing then check the slide as well.

I have some JB paste so if it binds in a few spots I will lap it up!

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by expendable on 3/20/2016, 5:40 pm

Are you sure you scale is correct and you are loading 3.8 grains?

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/20/2016, 5:46 pm

expendable wrote:Are you sure you scale is correct and you are loading 3.8 grains?
Yes sir

Used 3 different scales to verify.

BTW  4.2 gr of titegroup and 200 gr swc it works like a charm

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by jglenn21 on 3/20/2016, 6:40 pm

if the slide is not locking back then you have to go down in spring rate.


but honestly it sounds like it should function with 3.8.

is this a stock RO without an optic sight? have you checked you extractor for proper tension...

I'm running a light load of 3.5 B E with the 200 gr #68 on a wad gun that has a slide mounted dot... running a 9# ISMI spring with 2 coils cut.. doesn't kick them far but they come out and the pistol has been reliable



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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/20/2016, 7:04 pm

jglenn21 wrote:if the slide is not locking back then you have to go down in spring rate.


but honestly it sounds like it should function with 3.8.

is this a stock RO without an optic sight? have you checked you extractor for proper tension...

I'm running a light load of 3.5 B E with the 200 gr #68 on a wad gun that has a slide mounted dot...  running a 9# ISMI spring with 2 coils cut..   doesn't kick them far but they come out and the pistol has been reliable



I'm already at 10 lbs..Can or should I go lighter?  It is a stock RO with no optics...Just the sights it came with.  Have not checked extractor.

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by jglenn21 on 3/20/2016, 7:20 pm

check your extractor for too much pressure.

does the slide lock back?
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/20/2016, 7:21 pm

Maybe your magazines aren't tuned correctly ?
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/20/2016, 7:26 pm

The empty case does not even make it half way out of the chamber.  So, the slide is not pulling it out before everything stops..I can't get to the last round because its not making it that far..LOL

Load one round and try...Same ting

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/20/2016, 7:55 pm

Christopher Miceli wrote:Maybe your magazines aren't tuned correctly ?
I've tried a few different mags..Same issue

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by LenV on 3/20/2016, 8:35 pm

How much crimp are you using? I crimp all my loads pretty tight. There should be a visible crimp line on the case. Too little and you won't get a consistent burn. I find it darn hard to measure but it is real easy to see.

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/20/2016, 8:49 pm

OldMaster66 wrote:How much crimp are you using? I crimp all my loads pretty tight. There should be a visible crimp line on the case. Too little and you won't get a consistent burn. I find it darn hard to measure but it is real easy to see.

Now here is a thought


You may be on to something here..I crimp pretty light, I don't see that line.  And, when using the BE I was getting lots of what I assumed was unburnt powder..Could that be a sign of too little crimp?

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by LenV on 3/20/2016, 9:00 pm

That would be a real good indication of too little crimp. It would also address the question above about you being sure about your load. Both problems could give the same results. IE Failure to cycle.
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/20/2016, 9:01 pm

Do you case gauge your reloading?
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/20/2016, 9:04 pm

Christopher Miceli wrote:Do you case gauge your reloading?
I use the barrel as my gauge..They plunk just fine now but that could still be too little crimp

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by LenV on 3/20/2016, 9:20 pm

I assure you that it will not hurt anything to crimp the bullet a little more. I am not the only one that has trouble measuring the crimp. I think David said that no two people would measure the crimp the same. That being said here is a pretty good thread about crimping. There are a lot more if you use the search function.

Len

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t918-45-acp-crimp?highlight=crimp
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by bdas on 3/21/2016, 10:29 am

Asking because I don't know... Is a 10# recoil spring too light for an RO with no slide-mounted optic?  I've read about people using 9#, 10#, 11# recoil springs for ones with slide-mounted red dots, and people using 16#, 18#, 19# recoil springs for ones with iron sights.  I understand that you might need a lighter recoil spring for lighter loads, but 10# seems really light for use with iron sights, based purely on what I've read.  What recoil springs & hammer springs are other people using in RO's with iron sights and light loads?

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/21/2016, 10:34 am

For my ball gun. 19lb mainspring 14lb recoil. I can run it with a 16lb.   185jhp 4.2vv310
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by Al on 3/21/2016, 10:38 am

Yes 10# sounds a bit light.  I'm currently running 12# on 2 wad guns with slide mounted dots.
3.5 Clays-196gr H&G 130's crimped to .468.  These will also run in my hardball gun with up to 18# springs(HB gun won't lock back after the last round of course).  Can't say what the mainspring weight is on them, I've never asked my smith what he puts in there, they just work.
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by lablover on 3/21/2016, 10:40 am

I really think old master is on to something with my crimps...Cant wait to try them

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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by dronning on 3/21/2016, 11:01 am

Crimp could very well be your issue.  To light a crimp could actually cause the bullet to move forward and almost out of the case as it goes into battery.  This would really drop the pressure in the round causing very weak load.

While we are checking what is the OAL your are loading to, and what primers.  A HM I shoot with runs very light short line loads and he decided to use up some Federal primers he had laying around - gun wouldn't function.  It worked fine with the WLP primers.

- Dave
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by Dr.Don on 3/21/2016, 11:18 am

You may well be able to improve your ammo but there is something wrong with this gun.  With no weight on the slide it should be able to function well with a 12-14 lb recoil spring using the 3.8 BE load.  It's hard to diagnose over the web or via email, but if the slide moves freely I would start with the extractor tension. That causes many malfunctions with light loads.  The best article I have seen on adjusting the extractor is this one by Dave Salyer.

http://bullseyepistol.com/salyer5.htm
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Re: At my wits end...RO will not function with light loads

Post by SNaymola on 3/21/2016, 11:25 am

I had a similar problem with my wad gun last year. Lots of unburned power on the bench, bad ejection. Fail to load. Tried upping charge a bit. Tried tighter crimp. Checked extractor. Dirty gun after 20-30 shots. This was all with Clays. Finally went to different power. It all started working again. Turns out my Clays went bad. Just something to look at. You say it works okay with other powders.
Stan

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