the old time 38 bullseye load ?

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the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by rebs on 4/1/2016, 12:56 pm

Was the old time back in the 70's popular bullseye load 2.7 of bullseye with 148 gr wc and very slight roll crimp ? Is this still the best load or has it changed with powders and bullets made today ?

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by troystaten on 4/1/2016, 1:07 pm

A lot of variations on this load depending upon the gun but this load can certainly shoot better than me.

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by AllAces on 4/1/2016, 1:13 pm

For the M52, 2.8 gr Bullseye with 148 gr Zero HBWC's works to the limit of the 52's barrel. Double ended wad cutters may need to be driven a little faster for an accurate load.
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by JIMPGOV on 4/1/2016, 5:47 pm

STILL LOTS OF PPC SHOOTERS USING TONS OF 148GR HBWC.

2.7GR WST HAS REPLACED THE BULLSEYE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by Jerry Keefer on 4/1/2016, 7:50 pm

JIMPGOV wrote:STILL LOTS OF PPC SHOOTERS USING TONS OF 148GR HBWC.

2.7GR WST HAS REPLACED THE BULLSEYE BY LEAPS AND BOUNDS
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes....
I use lots of bullseye at short line with both the 45 and the 38.. Never grouped well at 50...   2.7 BE is a myth.
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by rebs on 4/2/2016, 5:32 am

what is better with WST powder ?
why is 2.7 BE a myth ?

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by james r chapman on 4/2/2016, 8:29 am

WST is indeed the go to powder now. Cleaner also.
Also WW 231, 3.1 grains is used quite often.
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by Dr.Don on 4/2/2016, 8:34 am

I think Jerry is saying that in all his time building many, many bullseye and PPC guns, they had much better results getting them to group well at 50yds with WST than with Bullseye.  Bullseye is an older powder and has a large reputation where accurate pistol loads are concerned.  But then WST came along and Jerry is saying it outperforms at 50yds in the 38Sp.
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by Dave C. on 4/2/2016, 11:15 am

ww231 in revolvers and BE in pistols.
just works that way for me.

Dave C.
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by rebs on 4/2/2016, 12:43 pm

I will give WST a try, also I do have some 231 powder.

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by Colt711 on 4/2/2016, 5:50 pm

Be nice to find a keg of WST !!! Jerry how does it compare to BE in the .45 AND is WST ony preferable to BE @ 50 yds? How does it compare @ 25 yds & 50 FT in both calibers?

Because of age, arthritis, & severely damaged rotator cuff I shoot the .38 1911 w/just a little .45 practice.

Thanks a lot for anything you can pass on.

Ron Habegger

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by Jon Eulette on 4/2/2016, 6:10 pm

Ron I shoot 3.3 gr BE for short line with 200 gr Magnus lswc. Very soft shooting. Not much more recoil than my .38 special. Big question is will your pistol work with it?
Jon
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by jglenn21 on 4/2/2016, 8:11 pm

last week Powder Valley had WST in 4 and 8 lb kegs

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by Virgil Kane on 4/2/2016, 8:13 pm

jglenn21 wrote:last week Powder Valley had WST in 4 and 8 lb kegs



As of tonight they still have WST in the 4 pounder.

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by s1120 on 4/3/2016, 7:07 am

Dave C. wrote:ww231 in revolvers and BE in pistols.
just works that way for me.

Dave C.


Ive found my smith revolver likes 2.8gr of hp38/231..  ive had better luck with the BE in my 45. I have not worked out a 50 yard load yet though...   Im hoping to find some wst to try.

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by rich.tullo on 4/4/2016, 12:43 pm

rebs wrote:what is better with WST powder ?
why is 2.7 BE a myth ?

Main advantages of WST are 

Cleaner hugely cleaners in revolvers. 
Softer at 2.7 gn
Accuracy, in my hand I cannot tell if it is better but it is certainly not worse and the softness could result in better timed and rapid scores. 

Disadvantages, 

With Hollow Base Wad cutters WST can theoretically have too much pressure much above 3.0 gains so you need to be careful reloading. 
Temperature sensitive, WST gets hotter the colder it is so below 50 degrees you may need an extra 10th. 

I just finished my last jug, good to know its back. but I have plenty of VV210 and VV320 which is supposed to be VV's clone of WST and W231.
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by rebs on 4/8/2016, 10:33 am

I have some 231 and 148 gr wc's to load in 38 cases. Loading for a Smith model 19 with 4"
barrel. What is a good starting point for the powder ? 3.1 of 231 was mentioned.
Is 231 any less or more smokey than Bullseye ? I will be shooting this indoors.

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by s1120 on 4/8/2016, 10:43 am

rebs wrote:I have some 231 and 148 gr wc's to load in 38 cases. Loading for a Smith model 19 with 4"
barrel. What is a good starting point for the powder ? 3.1 of 231 was mentioned.
Is 231 any less or more smokey than Bullseye ? I will be shooting this indoors.

Go up a few posts, and you will see the load im running on the very same gun. I tested loads of 2.8, 3.0, 3.2, and 3.4 gr of hp38/231 and mine likes the 2.8gr best. Your mileage may vary though...

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by LenV on 4/8/2016, 11:37 am

rebs wrote:Was the old time back in the 70's popular bullseye load 2.7 of bullseye with 148 gr wc and very slight roll crimp ? Is this still the best load or has it changed with powders and bullets made today ?

I load 2.8gr of bullseye. I have great results with this load. The loads listed above would probably give you the same results. I choose 2.8 BE because. A. The collet on my Lee powder dispenser throws 2.8 not 2.7 and B. WST and 231 have been Unobtanium around these parts for a long time.
 My point is that sometimes the best load is the one that you have the components and equipment to load, practice with, shoot and have fun.

Len     BTW: I use Magnus 148gr HBWC bullets.
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by tonyg on 4/8/2016, 2:10 pm

rebs wrote:Was the old time back in the 70's popular bullseye load 2.7 of bullseye with 148 gr wc and very slight roll crimp ? Is this still the best load or has it changed with powders and bullets made today ?


Hi rebs, the most popular 148gr bullet for Bullseye 38 special loads during the 1960s to the

1970s transition was the H&G 50 LSWC. It was a solid bullet, not a hollow base one.

here a link to a pic of that mold:   http://www.hensleygibbs.com/molds/50.jpg

I used your 2.7 grs Bullseye charge and roll crimp into the crimp groove.

I also loaded some with the crimp over the end of the bullet; with my Dad's shooting

I couldn't tell much difference in the accuracy at 50 yds.

I was loading for my Dad's Center fire stage shooting. They would group into the

ten ring with some in the X- ring. He was using a Colt Trooper, not a 1911.

Tony

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by s1120 on 4/8/2016, 3:36 pm

s1120 wrote:
rebs wrote:I have some 231 and 148 gr wc's to load in 38 cases. Loading for a Smith model 19 with 4"
barrel. What is a good starting point for the powder ? 3.1 of 231 was mentioned.
Is 231 any less or more smokey than Bullseye ? I will be shooting this indoors.

Go up a few posts, and you will see the load im running on the very same gun. I tested loads of 2.8, 3.0, 3.2, and 3.4 gr of hp38/231 and mine likes the 2.8gr best. Your mileage may vary though...

I should add....  I use the Lyman 358495 wad cutter. Its a solid base WC

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by rebs on 4/9/2016, 3:02 am

s1120,    Thank you for the replies

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by dsandula on 4/28/2016, 4:56 am

Jon Eulette wrote:Ron I shoot 3.3 gr BE for short line with 200 gr Magnus lswc. Very soft shooting. Not much more recoil than my .38 special. Big question is will your pistol work with it?
Jon

Jon - What spring weight and does your 45 have iron sites or slide mounted red dot with this load?  It takes 3.0 gr of BE (and similar speed powders) for my 1911 Clark 38 Special to function reliably with a 9 lb spring and slide mounted red dot.  (However, I believe the slide on the custom Clark-Hebard guns is much heavier than the average 1911 slide.)

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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by Jon Eulette on 4/28/2016, 8:23 am

Doug,
Longslide with Aimpoint Micro on very small slide mount. Also use same mount with 30mm Ultradot before switching to Aimpoint. 12# spring for government length slide; so really less applied weight. I doubt your slide is heavier. Clark in many cases surface ground his slides during a build. Also most of the .38 kit guns had lightened slides in barrel channel. I'm currently building a pistol for a young lady that will have frame mount and lightened slide. Goal is 100% functioning with 3.3 but striving for 3.0 of BE. Will eventually have pics and data.
Jon
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Re: the old time 38 bullseye load ?

Post by Jerry Keefer on 4/28/2016, 11:23 am

Jon  is on the right track... Lightened slides, frames mounts and lead will dominate one day...SmileSmile
My lady shooter's 1911/45 uses 3. BE shortline with a 14 pound spring.. I don't put much value on spring weight.. I only use a spring tester, so I can tell one spring from the other..I have a draw full of loose springs.. I change springs to adjust her recovery in rapid fire. Not to function the gun.. The flatter the gun shoots, the easier the recovery for the shooter..
The same system is built into  her Model 52.. Lightened slide, frame mount mirco, and 2 gr. of BE for shortline..  There are very few, in her class, that have more RF cleans than she..
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