Red dot for a new GCNM

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Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Warhorse on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:36 am

Please tell me what my options are, and best option for mounting a red dot sight to my new GCNC for bullseye competition.

Or am I crazy to want to do this to a new GCNM?

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by BE Mike on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:47 am

First things first. How does the Colt group at 50 yards?

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by LenV on Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:00 am

Does the Gold Cup have a round or flat top? The older Gold Cups/National match had a flat top and needed a different base. Marvel has both. Clark is another good choice but they were out the last time I talked to them and were not making any more till demand increased. I bought the last one they had and it was their display mount. There might still be vendors with stock on hand. If it is the latest model with a rounded top then don't order the Gold Cup mount.
http://www.marvelcustomguns.com/1911_new_gold_cup.htm

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by dronning on Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:12 am

BE Mike wrote:First things first. How does the Colt group at 50 yards?

Nice gun but nothing special about a new* GCNM yet - unless Colt goes belly up completely.  Did you buy it to shoot or as an investment, because putting a optic rail (slide or frame) on it may drop it's value.

Also is it Stainless or Blued, because the Stainless is a series 80 and the Blued is a series 70 which is easier to make the trigger smoother.  Removing the 80 fireing pin block can get you DQ'd.

If it doesn't group well it just means you spent too much for a starting platform for a BE gun.  The point is you could have saved $4-500 on a Range Officer and had a great platform to start with and $4-500 to spend on improvements.

If it was me, I'd keep the GCNM stock or sell it (I never have sold a gun yet) and start out with an RO.

- Dave

*I'm assuming when you say NEW you mean just built and not new to you.

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Warhorse on Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:08 pm

It is a brand new, MKIV Series '70, GCNM, blued with a flat top rib.

How does it group you ask? Ha, it is two days old to me, and I have not shot it yet.

I did buy it to shoot it, but my 61 year old eyes say it will need a red dot in the near future.

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by LenV on Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:16 pm

My eyes needed a dot also. Since it is a new series 70 I would think it will shoot just fine. It probably has a target in the box it came in.

Clark on mine.


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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Wobbley on Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:16 pm

Since it is a series 70, I would recommend a grip mount be tried first.  That way any intrinsic value will not be lost.  If it doesn't shoot well enough as is, which is likely, then I would get a new slide, and barrel and get that fitted IF I was intent on shooting the GC.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a GC lower, but the fit up of the slide and other upper parts was not to competitive standards even back then.  But the Colt frame etc was THE standard back then and remains a good basis now.

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by BE Mike on Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:16 pm

Wobbley wrote:Since it is a series 70, I would recommend a grip mount be tried first.  That way any intrinsic value will not be lost.  If it doesn't shoot well enough as is, which is likely, then I would get a new slide, and barrel and get that fitted IF I was intent on shooting the GC.  There is nothing inherently wrong with a GC lower, but the fit up of the slide and other upper parts was not to competitive standards even back then.  But the Colt frame etc was THE standard back then and remains a good basis now.
I agree, Wobbley. The Colt series 70 GCNM that I had, back in the day, wouldn't group better than 8 ring at 50 yards. I sold it and got a custom bullseye pistol from Jim Clark, Sr. It was built on a series 70 Government Model. It still shoots straight after all these years, but it has been back for a couple of rebuilds.

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Wobbley on Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:15 pm

I I should add that having an aftermarket barrel and bushing properly fitted will likely make an 8 ring pistol into a nine ring pistol alone.  But to be really competitive, a complete fit up of the slide to the frame needs to be done as well.  But this tends drop the value as a collector item.

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:24 pm

I should add that having an aftermarket barrel and bushing properly fitted will likely make an 8 ring pistol into a nine ring pistol alone. But to be really competitive, a complete fit up of the slide to the frame needs to be done as well. But this tends drop the value as a collector item.

Wobbly is incorrect. It has been highly repeated here by gunsmiths and others that slide to frame fit has far less impact on accuracy than you might think. A properly fit barrel alone can deliver <3.5" performance in many cases.

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by dronning on Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:04 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:
I should add that having an aftermarket barrel and bushing properly fitted will likely make an 8 ring pistol into a nine ring pistol alone.  But to be really competitive, a complete fit up of the slide to the frame needs to be done as well.  But this tends drop the value as a collector item.

Wobbly is incorrect.  It has been highly repeated here by gunsmiths and others that slide to frame fit has far less impact on accuracy than you might think.  A properly fit barrel alone can deliver <3.5" performance in many cases.
I've wondered on the slide to frame fit impact on a slide mount optic verses a frame mount optic.

It seems logical that a frame to slide fit doesn't impact group size as much as barrel fit to slide...  So my question is if the gun groups sub 2" and has a loose slide fit as long as the sights (iron or optic) are attached to the slide are you OK.  Now mount a frame optic on the frame and you should have more variation which should cause the group size to open up because they (frame and slide/barrel) may not always be in total alignment.

Of course sometimes I have a tendency to overthink things Smile.

- Dave

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by dronning on Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:05 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:
I should add that having an aftermarket barrel and bushing properly fitted will likely make an 8 ring pistol into a nine ring pistol alone.  But to be really competitive, a complete fit up of the slide to the frame needs to be done as well.  But this tends drop the value as a collector item.

Wobbly is incorrect.  It has been highly repeated here by gunsmiths and others that slide to frame fit has far less impact on accuracy than you might think.  A properly fit barrel alone can deliver <3.5" performance in many cases.
I've wondered on the slide to frame fit impact on a slide mount optic verses a frame mount optic.

It seems logical that a frame to slide fit doesn't impact group size as much as barrel fit to slide...  So my question is if the gun groups sub 2" and has a loose slide fit as long as the sights (iron or optic) are attached to the slide are you OK.  Now mount an optic on the frame and you should have more variation which should cause the group size to open up because they (frame and slide/barrel) may not always be in total alignment.

Of course sometimes I have a tendency to overthink things Smile.

- Dave

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by LenV on Thu Apr 07, 2016 5:29 pm

"It seems logical that a frame to slide fit doesn't impact group size as much as barrel fit to slide...  So my question is if the gun groups sub 2" and has a loose slide fit as long as the sights (iron or optic) are attached to the slide are you OK.  Now mount an optic on the frame and you should have more variation which should cause the group size to open up because they (frame and slide/barrel) may not always be in total alignment."

I am glad you brought that up. I was going to but got busy. +1 Smile

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:29 pm

In my experience a pistol with semi loose slide/frame fit will still hold 10 ring all day long with proper barrel fit from hand at 50 yds. Too much emphasis is placed on this area of build. Barrel locks up to hood, slide lugs and slidestop pin. The loose frame\slide will only have side to side play and no vertical if done correctly. I have a 45 with some horizontal play that holds x-ring from Ransom. It's consistent when locking up. As far as grip mounts go, I used one on a Clark longslide .38 spl and routinely shot high 880's........loose slide! Shoot what you like and shoot what you can afford. A mount can probably be made to fit the Eliason opening if rear sight removed for putting on a scope. Drilled and tapped holes would be hidden under rear sight when put back on retaining the value of the gun. I do recommend a Kart barrel and match bushing. I've built several ball guns out of GCNM and they we're nice pistols when completed. Just have fun!
Jon

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Colt711 on Thu Apr 07, 2016 7:19 pm

I have a GC slide mount for which I don't have a GC. $25 + shipping.

PM me.
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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Warhorse on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:31 pm

OldMaster66 wrote:My eyes needed a dot also. Since it is a new series 70 I would think it will shoot just fine. It probably has a target in the box it came in.

Clark on mine.


No target in the box.


Last edited by Warhorse on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clean up the posting)

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

Post by Warhorse on Thu Apr 07, 2016 9:47 pm

Colt711 wrote:I have a GC slide mount for which I don't have a GC. $25 + shipping.

PM me.
Ron Habegger
Thanks for the offer, but it is way to early for me to know where this will lead.

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Re: Red dot for a new GCNM

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