Sightron red dots

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Sightron red dots

Post by paul noles on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

I'm fed up with the ultradot Has anyone tried the sightron red dots

Paul

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Al on Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:19 am

Bullshooter wrote:I've used and sold several of the Sightron 30mm S30-5 sights and have had no issues or complaints. They will stand up to the recoil of a .45, are made in Japan, not China, have a crisp and round dot, and most importantly for me, they don't have the extremely annoying negative magnification present in the UltraDots.

Walt Jackson
Bull Shooters
Janesville, Wisconsin

Walt,
What type of mount are you using on your 45?  Slide or frame?  If slide, roughly how many rounds would you say you have on the Sightron dot? 

The UD's have such a good track record reliability wise, I hesitate to switch to something a bit less proven.  I had over 30,000 on my first slide mount and about 35,000 on my second, both 1'' UD's.  I'll replace the second one this year for the same reason I replaced the first one, having that many rounds makes me nervous going to Perry (Murphy knows me well and has me on speed dial).

Al

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Bullshooter on Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:35 am

Al,

I sold several S30-5 models and had no complaints, but the one I personally use has had about 5,000 rounds on a slide mounted .45 with no problems. I agree that the UDs have a long track record for reliability, and my primary guns still wear older UDs that don't have the negative magnification problem. 

FYI, I'm aware that some people never notice the negative magnification problem, especially those that don't shoot at 50 yards. When Larry Carter was servicing UDs, I discussed the problem with him. At one time, he would change out lenses on scopes that were affected. He told me that UltraDot claimed it was a "tolerance stacking" problem with the UD lenses, and that the individual lenses were within magnification specifications. IMHO, I call bullshit on that. To this day, UltraDot officially denies that there is a problem. After looking through many, many UltraDots over the years, I've also found that those affected scopes have a very slight bluish cast to them, while those that don't reduce the image have a very, very slight yellow cast to the image. I suspect a different lens vendor.

Walt

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by walt k on Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:56 pm

Just ordered one also. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to the Ultradot.
My older model  Ultradot also has a negative size image effect with a slight hue. 
And thanks very much for the discount code tip!

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by walt k on Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:28 pm

Just received a email from Optics Planet today stating there may be a delay of 14-25 days but even this is not firm. May just cancel the order and lose the discount but order it from else where.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Froneck on Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:50 pm

When I ordered mine they had posted "Only 2 Left" So I took one, when I seen the discount posted by Walt I thought I'd get another but when I checked availability 14 to 25 days were listed. Since mine is on the way with 2 day shipping I thought I would wait until I get mine to see if I like it.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by 10sandxs on Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:54 pm

My UD has about 15 rounds on a slide mount with a 15 lb spring and "reasonable" bullseye loads. It's turning off on me mid string... bump it and it comes back on... but typically too late... going in for repair

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Bubba Blaster on Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:15 pm

10sandxs wrote:My UD has about 15 rounds on a slide mount with a 15 lb spring and "reasonable" bullseye loads.  It's turning off on me mid string... bump it and it comes back on... but typically too late... going in for repair
Try tightening the battery cover the last two new ones I've seen have been loose from the factory and had the same symptoms.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by SMBeyer on Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:06 pm

10sandxs wrote:My UD has about 15 rounds on a slide mount with a 15 lb spring and "reasonable" bullseye loads.  It's turning off on me mid string... bump it and it comes back on... but typically too late... going in for repair
The one I just took off my 45 today did that also.  I spun the brightness nob clockwise until my hand was tired a couple of times.  Seems like the contacts get corroded or dirty and this cleans them.  After doing this I didn't have any problems with the dot going out again.  Now when I turn it off I give it a few complete turns.
Scott

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by sixftunda on Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:30 am

Ordered a Sightron last week and just finished a range session with it. It will be sent back. The parallax is horrible. The dot has to be dead center in the glass or shots will not be on call. If you hold the gun still and move your head the dot will warp as you move around. 
At the long line I figured out I could hold the dot at the bottom of the glass, shoot at the 8 ring at 6:00 and the bullet would go in the x-ring.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by walt k on Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:07 pm

Thanks very much for bringing that to our attention. I have one on back order and now I wonder.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Froneck on Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:32 pm

Oh! Bummer!! I ordered one too! Didn't get it yet, supposed to have 3 day shipping but it's been 6 days! Tracking puts in in my state, not sure if it will be delivered today since it's not far away. FedEx tracking claims it will be delivered by Friday. First thing I will do is set it on a stable platform with the dot on a target 50 yards away. If the dot moves out of the X ring it's on the way back!
 Thanks for the tip! saves me the time of mounting it to find out it's not good!

Froneck

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by paul noles on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:08 pm

Sorry you did not have a good experience with your sightron. I got my first one mounted the other day took it to the range and was very pleased all Red Dot sights have Parallax to a degree I don't care what they tell you they all have it I shoot right-handed and I cant to the left.. so you have to be careful with making your sight adjustments because up is not always true up and left and right is not always true left and right just something to think about anyway the new sightron on my 45 was very clear without any image reduction and I like it alot so I ordered another one for my 22 hope this helps

Paul

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:16 pm

Froneck wrote:Oh! Bummer!! I ordered one too! Didn't get it yet, supposed to have 3 day shipping but it's been 6 days! Tracking puts in in my state, not sure if it will be delivered today since it's not far away. FedEx tracking claims it will be delivered by Friday. First thing I will do is set it on a stable platform with the dot on a target 50 yards away. If the dot moves out of the X ring it's on the way back!
 Thanks for the tip! saves me the time of mounting it to find out it's not good!
To play the devil's advocate... I'd be curious of the outcome if you subjected the UD offering a side by side with the Sightron.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by paul noles on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:24 pm

I have .. I will not be buying any more Ultra dots if farther down the road I feel that the sightron is not doing what I wanted to do I will buy an AimPoint my older ultralights the ones that are more than 10 years old are wonderful the new ones are crap

paul noles

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Bullshooter on Wed Apr 20, 2016 1:45 pm

paul noles wrote:Sorry you did not have a good experience with your sightron. I got my first one mounted the other day took it to the range and was very pleased all Red Dot sights have Parallax to a degree I don't care what they tell you they all have it I shoot right-handed and I cant to the left.. so you have to be careful with making your sight adjustments because up is not always true up and left and right is not always true left and right just something to think about anyway the new sightron  on my 45 was very clear without any image reduction and I like it alot so I ordered another one for my 22 hope this helps

Paul

I gotta agree with Paul on this one. I Ransom rest test a fair amount of guns, most with red dot sights on them. With the dot centered in the bull at 50 yards, there is always some movement on the target when I change my head position, another way of saying if there are dots out there with no parallax, I haven't seen them yet. Keeping the dot centered in the scope has become part of my shot process.

Walt

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Froneck on Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:20 pm

Being allowed to try friends UD's I didn't get one. I am looking for the longer type red dot not a micro. My Perry rain experience with the mirco has me looking for a different style plus coupled with the AMU's dissatisfaction with the performance of the Aimpoint Mirco. I want something else. The Primary Arms red dot micro does work better, I got one because a club member replaced the Aimpoint micro with it.
  I can compare it to the 9000SC when the Sightron is delivered thought it might not be a fair comparison due to the price difference.
 Simply put I do not mind buying a top end scope but I want to get what I paid for! Many brands make claims as to how good they are but when purchase they fall short. Many I purchased that claim to fit the Weaver Base or Picatinny but find they do not! Yes they will fit but looking at the fit I see many errors. I have a new set of Weaver rings that are still in the box, trying them I see they fit perfectly. When I got the 9000SC I noticed the rings provided fit as well, perfect!
 Thought I haven't mounted the 9000SC yet I did check it, placed on a stable platform and moving my head so that the dot with the scope about the same distance as it would be from my eye if mounted on my pistol the dot does not move at 50 yards. Seems to be the same at 25 yards too! Now at 3 feet it moves very much! Not that I tested it at 3 feet but when I got it and sitting at my computer desk I looked thru it and was worried about the dot movement though it was only 3 feet. But it proved to be OK at longer distance.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by weber1b on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:06 pm

Gee, with all the dots having issues in one fashion or another, perhaps that explains why the best shooter on my Bullseye team is the guy who shoots only irons.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Wed Apr 20, 2016 3:35 pm

Anatoly doesn't count 
His daughters are better than many...actually most

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by weber1b on Wed Apr 20, 2016 4:21 pm

Actually I was referring to John K, but Anatoly further makes the same point.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by sixftunda on Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:11 pm

To clarify:
The Sightron I bought is the model where you can change the reticles.  When it is set on crosshairs and you move your head up and down while holding it still, the horizontal line moves like a see-saw.  I have a cheap Bushnell that doesn't even do that.

I think there are shortcomings to every red dot.  Even the Aimpoint Micro lacks tubes and a strong enough mount for a .45.  Ultradots have their issues as well and I shoot for Team Ultradot. 

The price of a Sightron is comparable to Ultradot but the quality is not.  I plan to send them an email to see if they will exchange it.  At this point for me, it has been very disappointing.  The dot was very clear and I think shooting with a crosshair would be worthwhile to try and see how it translates into scores. 

I am always willing to try new things but the one thing I have heard a few good shooters and gunsmiths say over and over always rings true.  "If you don't see the top guys shooting with it, there must be a reason."

sixftunda

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Froneck on Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:19 pm

I agree Sixftunda. That why I talk to my son before buying anything! Since the AMU will try anything that's available the info I get from him. If they are using it then it's the best available.
 When Adam was home shooting before going into the Army I changed is Red Dot every season. Ultadot worked and another very similar was Illusion. But after a season mounted on the 45 they developed problems. I took a few apart. After a while the windage and elevation screw would make a dent the the internal tube. I became noticeable when adjusting one the other would change too. After a while recoil would move both and uncalled shots would result. The early models I didn't have problems with Parallax. It was there but I found a way to remove it. The lens on the muzzle side could be adjusted in and out. I made a wrench to remove the lock ring then adjust the ring holding the lens until parallax at 50 yards was 0. Then put the locking ring back in.
 Mine didn't come today, as soon as it does I'll test it. Optics Planet has been having a few sales, I missed out and paid $150 for mine, hopefully they will have another Red Dot sale, I'll return the Sightron for a 9000SC. The $150 will lower the cost of the 9000SC quite a bit especially if they have another 20% off sale.
 I did measure the threads on the 9000SC looks to be .8mm, I set the lathe to cut it and will make an extension tube from 7075 Aluminum, Delrin and Acrylic to see which I like the best. Unfortunately it's on the big pile of things I want to do. I'm going to try this weekend!

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by LenV on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:26 am

There has been much discussion here in the past about parallax in Red Dot scopes. There was even extensive testing done on some of our favorite models. I recall that Ultra Dot was the winner of those tests with the least amount of parallax. None of the scopes tested had zero. I have used the search function and can not find that old discussion. Perhaps someone with a better memory or more access can find it. Using search I was not able to go back past Feb of 2015.

Len

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by walt k on Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:45 am

Check out the article "Facts and figures about red dots sights" on Bullseyepistol.com.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Froneck on Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:57 am

A while ago I read a few articles on Parallax in the red dot type scopes. One of the factors creating Parallax if my memory is correct is the lens the red dot is aimed at and reflected from. To get the dot in the correct position the lens must be concave. This it what causes the Parallax and is in all types that use the reflected red dot.(or what ever color) The basic problem is that many of the red dot sights are adjusted to 100 yards or more. I'm thinking the older model red dot sights were made with pistol in mind but seeing advertisements most are mounted on AR's or something similar. If I recall the correct number UD had a major jump in intensity between 5 and 6. Larry said it was because it was done for low light levels and if you notice many red dots have night settings. He was getting some made without that big jump. It seems that the makers are more interested in the rifle than target pistol and therefore adjust parallax to longer ranges.

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Re: Sightron red dots

Post by Axehandle on Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:56 am

Timely thread...  Just thinking of buying a red dot.  Guess I'll save my pennies for an Aimpoint...

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Re: Sightron red dots

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