New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

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New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by cdrt on Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:35 am

I called the NRA to get clarification of just what they mean with the rule change regarding ammo in 3.17.
I will post their response once I get it.
This is the current rule.  The problem is part (a), what does it mean?  It used to just read that you would use 230 grains FMJ's when shooting Service Pistol:
3.17 Ammunition -
(a) Service - Full charge cartridge ammunition manufactured for or by the Government and issued for use in service arms.
(b) Any - Ammunition of any description that may be fired without danger to competitors, range personnel or equipment.
Tracer, incendiary, armor piercing and similar ammunition is prohibited.

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Service Pistol Ammunition

Post by Richard Ashmore on Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:19 am

IMNSHO, the change reflects that the current Service Pistol, the M9, doesn't use a 230 grain projectile.

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by cdrt on Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:22 am

Right, but does it mean we have to buy commercial ammo to shoot NRA Service Pistol or what?  That was the question I posed to Damien and he was going to check with the people who wrote the rule to find out what exactly they meant.
They did change the description of what a Service Pistol is, to include the M9 but not all the pistols the CMP added to their list.  Before the rules just listed the 1911, so that's why the ammo only listed 230 grains FMJ's.

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by BE Mike on Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:25 am

Richard Ashmore wrote:IMNSHO, the change reflects that the current Service Pistol, the M9, doesn't use a 230 grain projectile.
Wouldn't it also cover any future ammo developed by or for the military for use in small arms? There have been rumors that the military may use hollow point ammo for use in fighting terror.

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Rule 3.17

Post by Richard Ashmore on Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:31 am

Rule 3.17 is a definition.  A match program for an NRA sanctioned Service Pistol event could specify ammunition conforming to Rule 3.17(a).  That would be unusual.  I haven't seen GI .45ACP Match Ball since 1995, and civilian competitors could not get it anyway, so in practice it won't be an issue.


Last edited by Richard Ashmore on Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:33 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar)

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by cdrt on Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:40 am

Richard Ashmore wrote:Rule 3.17 is a definition.  A match program for an NRA sanctioned Service Pistol event could specify ammunition conforming to Rule 3.17(a).  That would be unusual.  I haven't seen GI .45ACP Match Ball since 1995, and civilian competitors could not get it anyway, so in practice it won't be an issue.
Well, that makes more sense.  If it is just a definition of what service ammo is and if we are allowed to modify a program to state that at a NRA Service Pistol match, you can shoot this or this, but not this, then it would not be a problem.
Damien's first take was that the rule only applied to Service (active military) shooters, but I told him that did not make sense, since it is a ammo rule, not competitor rule.
I will call him back this morning with your take on it and see if that settles the issue.  He was going to email me with his response but I have not seen that yet.

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by BE Mike on Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:56 am

I really don't know why the NRA is concerned about defining matches for Service Pistol or the ammo. Isn't this more of a concern for the CMP, since it is the entity that controls the EIC and President's 100?

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Service Pistol Match

Post by Richard Ashmore on Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:16 am

BE Mike wrote:I really don't know why the NRA is concerned about defining matches for Service Pistol or the ammo. Isn't this more of a concern for the CMP, since it is the entity that controls the EIC and President's 100?

  I have participated in NRA Service Pistol tournaments, with a separate CMP EIC match.

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by cdrt on Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:42 am

Just got off the phone with Damien, and yes, it is just a definition of what "service ammo" is, if you could ever find it.

However, ammo for NRA Service Pistol matches is defined in Section 3.1 (General Service Pistol Specifications) and still restricts the .45 to 230 grain FMJ's and restricts the 9mm to 115 to 125 FMJ's.  OKC Gun Club runs a NRA Service Pistol state match every year, so I will pass this along to them, since that is coming up shortly.


(a) Pistol competitors with the .45 Caliber pistol may use any safe ammunition with a 230 grain, full metal jacket, round nosed bullet. (See Rule 4-16b CMP Rules and Regulations.)
(b) Pistol competitors with the 9mm pistol may use any safe ammunition with a 115 through 125 grain, full metal jacket, round nosed bullet. (See Rule 4-16c CMP Rules and Regulations)

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:48 am

There are still NRA sanctioned 900 aggregate service pistol matches being shot at some tournaments. That's one reason why they need rules for it.
Jon

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by BE Mike on Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:16 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:There are still NRA sanctioned 900 aggregate service pistol matches being shot at some tournaments. That's one reason why they need rules for it.
Jon
Thanks. After all these years, I still have things to learn.

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by james r chapman on Fri May 20, 2016 12:05 pm

Geez, am I confused now.

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by Gunsnjeeps on Fri May 20, 2016 8:44 pm

Easy, CMP says any jacketed .45 ACP, NRA defines service ammo using a no longer existing CMP rule.

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

Post by james r chapman on Fri May 20, 2016 9:32 pm

Ok, so it's not a requirement for service pistol apparently. the State service Pistol Championship in June says CMP rule 6.5.2 for approved ammo for Service Pistol and EIC...

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Re: New rule 3.17 (Ammunition) in 2016 Pistol Rule Book

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