Accu-rails on SS slide?

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Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by straybrit on 4/28/2016, 9:40 am

So my Kimber TLEII which I use as a wad gun is showing signs of wear (after 7 years and many thousands of rounds). Specifically the slide/frame fit is no longer very tight. This became really noticeably when I took delivery of my RO ball gun. A knowledgeable fellow shooter suggested that I look into having accu-rails fitted. A fairly lengthy search seems to suggest that one has to go to a smith licensed by Bob Kreiger - but most of the info I can find is at least 5 years old.

Anyone in here got any observations on how best to improve things or recommendations on a bullseye smith that could fit rails if deemed appropriate. I'm not looking to do anything until after the summer match season dies down but I suspect I may have to get it on someone's schedule.

Thanks
Derek

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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by BE Mike on 4/28/2016, 9:48 am

I don't know about a SS slide, but when I wanted a tired old Colt series 70 ball gun tightened, I sent it to Larry Carter (Larry has Accu-Rails on all of his 1911's). I would suggest contacting Larry. Here's a link: http://www.larrysguns.com/ContactUs.aspx
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by Jon Eulette on 4/28/2016, 9:49 am

Accu Rails
Doug Jones 
248-852-6490
$215
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by DavidR on 4/28/2016, 12:07 pm

BE Mike wrote:I don't know about a SS slide, but when I wanted a tired old Colt series 70 ball gun tightened, I sent it to Larry Carter (Larry has Accu-Rails on all of his 1911's). I would suggest contacting Larry. Here's a link: http://www.larrysguns.com/ContactUs.aspx
Larrys accurailed guns were done by doug jones, the inventor of the system sold him the business long ago however I would not recommend doing this. We have had Doug do several in the past 2 years and not one was a good job. They all came back either loose or so tight we had to re rail them to get them going. He has done very nice jobs in the past but the experience of mine and two friends were not good at all. I sent mine back three times and Doug was nice even paid shipping twice but for what ever reason he could never get it right. I settled for the best I could get which was as loose as before he started. Plus beware he cuts your slide and frame and you can never go back after that it will need the rails forever.
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by Jerry Keefer on 4/28/2016, 1:00 pm

Sorry to hear that... I do them, and when over loaded, I sent some to Doug.. The ones he did for me were fine..
It's not a job for the beginner.. Everything, all planes and axes must to be exact. It is the ultimate system for the frame and slide..


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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by BE Mike on 4/28/2016, 3:11 pm

DavidR wrote:
BE Mike wrote:I don't know about a SS slide, but when I wanted a tired old Colt series 70 ball gun tightened, I sent it to Larry Carter (Larry has Accu-Rails on all of his 1911's). I would suggest contacting Larry. Here's a link: http://www.larrysguns.com/ContactUs.aspx
Larrys accurailed guns were done by doug jones, the inventor of the system sold him the business long ago however I would not recommend doing this. We have had Doug do several in the past 2 years and not one was a good job. They all came back either loose or so tight we had to re rail them to get them going. He has done very nice jobs in the past but the experience of mine and two friends were not good at all. I sent mine back three times and Doug was nice even paid shipping twice but for what ever reason he could never get it right. I settled for the best I could get which was as loose as before he started. Plus beware he cuts your slide and frame and you can never go back after that it will need the rails forever.
Sorry to hear that. He did superb work on my hard ball pistol. Another thing about the system, is that a Marvel or Nelson, etc. .22 conversion doesn't fit on the Accu Rail frame.
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by DavidR on 4/28/2016, 5:14 pm

It is a shame I have friends with great ones Doug did that have thousands of rounds thru and work smooth as glass but ours were not the case. Its all in the machine work and to be honest I think he over cut my slide as he sent it back twice with different sized rails in it trying to get the slop out. Its a great mod if you could get Jerry to do it id say go for it!
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by rreid on 4/28/2016, 9:05 pm

I just got one back from Doug Jones a couple months ago.  He did a good job.  Its a cmp service pistol, and it's nice and tight now, but it cycles wadcutter ammo even with a 16lb spring.
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by BE Mike on 4/29/2016, 9:05 am

DavidR wrote:
BE Mike wrote:I don't know about a SS slide, but when I wanted a tired old Colt series 70 ball gun tightened, I sent it to Larry Carter (Larry has Accu-Rails on all of his 1911's). I would suggest contacting Larry. Here's a link: http://www.larrysguns.com/ContactUs.aspx
Larrys accurailed guns were done by doug jones, the inventor of the system sold him the business long ago however I would not recommend doing this. We have had Doug do several in the past 2 years and not one was a good job. They all came back either loose or so tight we had to re rail them to get them going. He has done very nice jobs in the past but the experience of mine and two friends were not good at all. I sent mine back three times and Doug was nice even paid shipping twice but for what ever reason he could never get it right. I settled for the best I could get which was as loose as before he started. Plus beware he cuts your slide and frame and you can never go back after that it will need the rails forever.
I'm curious. What brand slides and frames were sent for Accu-Rails in the bunch that you were dissatisfied with?
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by Jon Eulette on 4/29/2016, 9:35 am

I don't think it would make that much difference what the brand was or the original condition because when he machines the frame and slide for those rails he's basically truing everything up to the rail. Over the years I've probably worked on 8 or 10 railed pistols and they were all pretty good.
Jon
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by DavidR on 4/29/2016, 11:26 am

BE Mike wrote:
DavidR wrote:
BE Mike wrote:I don't know about a SS slide, but when I wanted a tired old Colt series 70 ball gun tightened, I sent it to Larry Carter (Larry has Accu-Rails on all of his 1911's). I would suggest contacting Larry. Here's a link: http://www.larrysguns.com/ContactUs.aspx
Larrys accurailed guns were done by doug jones, the inventor of the system sold him the business long ago however I would not recommend doing this. We have had Doug do several in the past 2 years and not one was a good job. They all came back either loose or so tight we had to re rail them to get them going. He has done very nice jobs in the past but the experience of mine and two friends were not good at all. I sent mine back three times and Doug was nice even paid shipping twice but for what ever reason he could never get it right. I settled for the best I could get which was as loose as before he started. Plus beware he cuts your slide and frame and you can never go back after that it will need the rails forever.
I'm curious. What brand slides and frames were sent for Accu-Rails in the bunch that you were dissatisfied with?
He was sent a Colt 70s (mine) and two Caspians, the colt was old and was loose, the two caspians were new
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by DavidR on 4/29/2016, 11:28 am

rreid wrote:I just got one back from Doug Jones a couple months ago.  He did a good job.  Its a cmp service pistol, and it's nice and tight now, but it cycles wadcutter ammo even with a 16lb spring.
Great to hear maybe he found a cure for the problems he had with ours.
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by bradhe on 5/4/2016, 11:35 am

How hard is it to set up to do this yourself (for personal guns)?  Where can I get a drawing?

thanks

Brad

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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by Jerry Keefer on 5/4/2016, 11:52 am

At one time, Joe Cominolli sold a blue print system with just a slight variation, to avoid conflict with the Kreiger patent.
I don't know if he still offers it or not.. The tooling, fixtures, and instrumentation to cut and measure is rather costly...Like I said before, there is zero room for error..A three axis  DRO is a must in my opinion..
www.cominolli.com
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by Saladman on 5/5/2016, 4:17 pm

What kind of extra tooling and fixtures would you need?  (uninitiated here!)

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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by Jerry Keefer on 5/5/2016, 8:08 pm

Saladman wrote:What kind of extra tooling and fixtures would you need?  (uninitiated here!)
Solid, rigid fixtures to hold the frame and slide and cut both planes in one set up..  Must be capable of being zeroed on all axis.. Dedicated carbide cutters.. to true the flats and a radius cutter to cut the grooves. Woodruff key cutters will not work.. .075  rod to cut into rail  length..a fixture to create the 90° bend in one end..Good instrumentation..dial indicators/center finders, Z axis tool setters,  etc.. As I mentioned.. A three axis DRO is essential in my opinion.  That alone is $3000.  The prints,  if still available were $1000. 10 years ago..And, we haven't bought the rails, cutters or instruments yet..
You must create a true plane to work from.. I always use bottom rail contact.. Because that's how I think it should be..Some have used top rail contact plane, but I avoid that.. Working on newer and quality parts, enabled excellent results.
I don't know what Doug is charging now, but it's worth it..
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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by Saladman on 5/6/2016, 2:09 am

Informative response as usual, and I can agree fully with your last sentence as my Range Officer is absolutely superb feeling with the rails installed.  I guess I didn't appreciate just how much work goes into making such a hidden change!

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Re: Accu-rails on SS slide?

Post by bradhe on 5/11/2016, 1:40 pm

I had a nice conversation with Joe, who has given this up. (though there may be someone else doing it he is going to hook me up with)

Any chance you would share a better picture of that drawing?

thanks

B

PS: By the way, thanks very much for going to the trouble to post all this stuff over time.  I learn something every time (todays lesson was on 41s) .  I am going to learn how to build a <2" gun if it kills me.

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