WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

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WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by Colt711 on Thu May 12, 2016 6:13 pm

After reading the praises of Winchester's WST here and from an experienced local shooter and after watching for it I was able to purchase 8 lbs recently. I loaded it @ 2.7 grains. After shooting approximately 100 rds thru my Giles I tore the gun down for cleaning. It was the dirtiest and most leaded barrel I have ever seen. I should mention the pistol was starting to exhibit feeding problems. The bullets used were Precision Delta's HB 148 WC's (swaged). 

I have used BE in the past almost exclusively in the pistol also mostly w/ the same bullet. It leads more than .45's have in my experience.  The .45's have always been cast while the HB .38's swaged.

I really like the feel of the .38 w/ this powder but am curious as to other's experiences. Do you have more powder fouling and more leading?

Ron Habegger

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by jglenn21 on Thu May 12, 2016 10:03 pm

take you HBWC and coat them with 45-45-10 mix from while label lubes... It's a mix of alox, carnauba wax and mineral spirits.


I just clean the bullets in a plastic jar of ordorless mineral spirits then put them in a similar lidded jar. drip the mix on top of the bullets( you will use too much the first time out) then just tumble the bullets in the jar by hand


spread them out on waxed paper and let them dry.


it cured any leading I had with HBWCs in my wife's 52.



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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by rich.tullo on Thu May 12, 2016 11:22 pm

Precision Deltas are filthy. 

I am surprised the feed in that application. 

Double ended is better for semi autos they say. 

Enough crimp?

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by fc60 on Fri May 13, 2016 12:02 pm

Greetings,

I just finished testing a friends ammo loaded with WST.

He used Remington HBWC bullets.

I also tested some Federal and TargetMaster commercial for a "benchmark".

After firing 100 rounds, the barrel was quite clean.

Oh yes, the barrel is a Kart 38 Special with a 0.355" groove diameter mounted in a barrel tester.

I was impressed by both the ballistic consistency (SD under 7) and printed accuracy at 50 yards of the WST powder.

2.8 grains of WST averaged 760 FPS and the groups were slightly larger than the TargetMaster. The TargetMaster group  fit inside the X-ring at 50 yards. The 2.8 grains WST scored a 100X9 at 50 yards.

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by james r chapman on Fri May 13, 2016 1:01 pm

Unfortunately, remington 148 hbwc's have been unobtainium for most of us. Although filthy to load, their ,360 skirt provides the cleanest most accurate bullet.

I also like the 45-45-10 suggestion. Or, clean the gun more frequently. Changing powders won't fix it. Imho

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by Colt711 on Fri May 13, 2016 7:03 pm

Although I haven't been aggressively searching for HB WC's I haven't seen any either. Allthough I appreciate the sharing of the "45 45 10" procedure I always clean CF guns prior to a match anyhow so it wouldn't save cleaning frequency.

This shortage looks as if it's somthing we're going to have to live with when the recent attack by a certain political figure is considered.

Ron Habegger


Last edited by Colt711 on Fri May 13, 2016 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : 5/13 grammar)

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by JIMPGOV on Fri May 13, 2016 7:29 pm

I HAD THE SAME EXPERIENCE WITH THE OLD STAR BULLETS WHEN I SHOT A MODEL 52. REGULAR STAR BULLETS LEADED THE BORE. BUT THE STAR SPECIAL MATCH WERE GREAT. I USED TO DIP REGULAR STAR BULLETS IN ROOSTER JACKET LUBE. THAT ELIMINATED THE LEADING. SO THE 45-45-10 SHOULD SOLVE THE ISSUE.

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by james r chapman on Fri May 13, 2016 7:41 pm

Well, then, precision Delta is basically the.old Star bullet and the Magnus 148 hbwc's will sboot X's for you. I believe both are available. Magnus and Dardas also have fine cast bullets.

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by Jerry Keefer on Fri May 13, 2016 8:54 pm

I agree with JIM.. Stars have always been a problem.. The lead BN tester verifies how soft they are..But the Remingtons are even softer.  Liquid Alox or 45-45-10 will save the day..Something else to ponder is the construction of the chambers or forcing cones.. Factory forcing cones  are rather primitive, and most chambers have little, if any throat with abrupt leades.. the surface of the projectile is abraded by this and cannot help but transfer metal to the barrel interior

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by noylj on Sat May 14, 2016 6:03 am

Measure bullet diameter. Seat and crimp bullet. Pull bullet and measure the diameter again. If not the same, you need a larger expander and, probably, more case mouth flare. I found a minimum bullet diameter of 0.359" was needed.
Whether an M52 or a 1911, I have never shoot a semi-auto that did well with DEWCs. Of course, my revolvers don't do well with them either.
Where is the leading?

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Rooster Jacket?

Post by Russ OR on Sat May 14, 2016 3:09 pm

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/746916/rooster-jacket-waterproof-bullet-film-lube-and-paper-patch-lube-16-oz

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by C.Perkins on Sat May 14, 2016 4:42 pm

Never had a leading issue in my M52 using Remington, Speer, or Hornady 148gr HBWC's.
Did go to a Lyman "M" die a while back to see if it had any affect on accuracy.
I can seat the bullet with thumb pressure now with no swaging of the bullets.
As far as accuracy, well the loads are still accurate but it makes me feel better that they are not being resized while seating.

To the O.P.
Where is the leading ?
Toward the breech, muzzle, the full length ?
With leading in certain areas, there is a possible cure.

Remington cases with 2.8gr of Bullseye is all I load for it on an old beam scale for consistency.

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by orpheoet on Sat May 14, 2016 7:43 pm

I use Zero 148 HBWC with 2.7 gr of WST in my M52 and recently cleaned the barrel after about 300 rounds. Very little leading just past the chamber. Cleaned up with minimal effort.

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

Post by noylj on Wed May 18, 2016 1:42 pm

I never got any leading, but WST was not even among the ten most accurate powders I tested in my S&W M52s.
Pull some seated and crimped bullets and see if the diameter is different than before the bullet was loaded.
Leading is a good sign that you are swaging the bullets down during seating (or your barrel has a over-sized groove diameter, but you've already slugged you barrel, right?). 
This could be due to NOT expanding the case enough (not talking about case mouth flare, where some today don't use an expander and just flare the case mouth)—where the case ID should be 0.001-0.002" under bullet diameter—or, NOT using enough case mouth flare (which lets the bullet seat deeper in the case and remain aligned better), using a bullet that is undersized for your barrel (I find that HBWCs usually need to be 0.359-0.360" to perform well).
So, I use Remington cases (thinnest case walls) and Remington HBWCs exclusively. I go so far as to NOT size my cases.

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Re: WST in The .38 Colt SPL Conversion

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