Box Stock 45s

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Box Stock 45s

Post by BaldingEagle on 5/17/2016, 8:50 am

I have a box stock series 70 Gold Cup that has had probably no more than 250 rounds fired.  My father gave it to me when I graduated from dental school in 1983.  It was bought new in 1983.  I also have a stock limited edition Kimber Target Match with probably no more than 100 rounds thru it.  I have never fired either one at 50 yards.  I am just now seriously trying to get into Bullseye shooting.  My question is, what would be reasonable expectations for these guns at 50 yards.  Right now, I am such a poor bullseye shooter, it would be hard to judge what each gun is capable of.
Thanks in advance
Doug

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by BE Mike on 5/17/2016, 9:02 am

The Kimber will group at 50 yards. It may not be a 10 ring group, but it should be ok. The only way to find out is to test it. The Colt should not be considered for bullseye until extensively accurized. You could probably sell the Colt as is and get enough money for it to pay for a Springfield Range Officer and get a decent trigger job to boot. The Range Officer has a good rep for an out-of-the-box pistol.
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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by Laminarman on 5/17/2016, 9:10 am

I have a stock STI Trojan that I had very low expectations for.  I shot it from a sandbag and with my hand loads it was getting groups of under 3" consistently.  Some fliers were me for sure.  A pretty accomplished BE shooter shot it a few weeks back and was very surprised what it did for the money and being stock.  Would love a Ransom rest but would just shoot off a sandbag to start.  Someone on here told me to shoot at 35 yards instead of 50 to develop loads and that helped a lot until I moved out to 50 with a rest.

Edit: it does have a "custom" trigger from Brazos Custom and that certainly helps, but other than that it's bone stock.

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by BaldingEagle on 5/17/2016, 9:31 am

Thank you to all
I have some handloads.  I will give them a try at 35 yards and report back.  Mike, I cant ever sell the Gold Cup.  My father gave it to me and he is gone now.  Its in pristine condition and I will pass it on to my son.  But I understand your thought and and reasoning.  IF I ever get good enough, I will buy a dedicated wad gun.  Heck, right now, I'm just trying to keep my 22 in the scoring rings.  Let alone keep them in the black!  But again, thanks to all who responded.
Doug

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by jmdavis on 5/17/2016, 9:53 am

Master the 22, there's alot of 22 shooting out there. When the time and finances are right, find a good used wad gun they can be had sometimes for $1k or so). The mastery process will start over but its half the fun.
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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by james r chapman on 5/17/2016, 11:20 am

Fit a new barrel bushing. It can't hurt it.
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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by BE Mike on 5/17/2016, 12:22 pm

BaldingEagle wrote:Thank you to all
I have some handloads.  I will give them a try at 35 yards and report back.  Mike, I cant ever sell the Gold Cup.  My father gave it to me and he is gone now.  Its in pristine condition and I will pass it on to my son.  But I understand your thought and and reasoning.  IF I ever get good enough, I will buy a dedicated wad gun.  Heck, right now, I'm just trying to keep my 22 in the scoring rings.  Let alone keep them in the black!  But again, thanks to all who responded.
Doug
With the GC having so much sentimental value, I wouldn't have it modified, but keep it as is. They are a nice pistol, but in my experience, not bullseye match ready out-of-the-box. That doesn't make them a bad pistol by any means.
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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by Froneck on 5/17/2016, 1:22 pm

Being new and not knowing better I purchased a Series 70 Gold Cup. Couldn't shoot that dam thing! But I kept trying. Kicked the Doo Doo out of everyone in the Marksman class with .22 and Center Fire but the .45 kept me well in the Marksman class! Did well at Perry, until the .45, went into the toilet! I got to know Fred Kart when he came to Perry and he asked what in the world I did to shoot so bad with the .45 after shooting so great with the other guns?? I told him I can't shoot the .45!!! He asked to see the gun, he said it wasn't me, the gun had issues. One being the collet bushing! He took the gun with him, I purchased another standard 1911 that I had built. He was right! I returned to Perry the following year as and Expert and made the Expert Class team. Just before leaving for Perry I got the Gold Cup Kart worked on so I decided to use it for Ball. Tested it before leaving for Perry and shot a 96 slow fire with it! Got a leg at Perry too. Following year Jimmy Clark did a roll trigger job on it. I legged out and brought the rapid fire target to show Jimmy and Fred. Aced it with 7X. I used that same gun to shoot in the 280's in the National match in following years. After Kart worked on the gun you could not tell it was not an out of the box Gold Cup. There were no changes in appearance. One thing I did change later was the staked front sight, it came out one too many times so I silver brazed it in. Later I replaced the rear sight with a Bomar exact replacement. However it's no longer available, when I called them I was told I got the last one.
 So to make a long story longer the Gold Cup can be made to shoot with little modification. I would have the front sight silver brazed thought it will probably work fine with other than Full Ball that is no longer required in service pistol as it was when I was shooting to get my distinguished Medal. Naturally if you want to get it scope mounted a few holes need to be drill in the top. Making a scope mount to fit on top the Gold Cup slide is easy, cuts can be made to allow  keeping the iron sights in place. Furthermore the Colt 1911 type guns were desired to make Bullseye guns because the frame and slide was the best there was available. I'm thinking the series 70 probably still is.
 Therefore if your looking to make a good bullseye gun the Colt is a good choice if you have it! If you scope mount it, later the scope can be removed and the holes filled if you intend to pass it along in the as near original as possible.

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by Jack H on 5/17/2016, 3:25 pm

My 1963 made Gold Cup NM Ransom grouped 2.5 with USA white box.  Not too shabby I thought.

Then I tried a 70 series GC.  Not so good.


The 1963 GC actually shot UMC HB into tighter knot groups, about 1.5-2" off the Ransom, but there were usually 2-3 flyers out to 4-5 inches

All 50yds.
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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by BaldingEagle on 5/17/2016, 4:20 pm

I don't have access to a ransom rest so I will do with the ol sandbags.  I will report back after I try both at 50 (or 35).  Of course I haven't really played around with my loads.  4.1gr Bullseye under 200gr Lazer Cast LSWC.  Random brass.  We shall see how it goes.
Doug

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by Jon Eulette on 5/17/2016, 4:35 pm

Doug,
Highly recommend using 3.5-3.6 gr Bullseye for 25 yds and your 4.1 gr for 50 yds. No sense beating your self when shooting the short line :p)
Jon
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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by jglenn21 on 5/17/2016, 7:22 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Doug,
Highly recommend using 3.5-3.6 gr Bullseye for 25 yds and your 4.1 gr for 50 yds. No sense beating your self when shooting the short line :p)
Jon


+1
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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by LenV on 5/17/2016, 7:57 pm

BaldingEagle, Have you been looking in my safe? Smile I took my Kimber Limited Edition and my Gold Cup to the range and wanted to see how they compared with the same ammo. I used a Lee pistol rest and fired from 50 yds. The Kimber has had nothing done to it. Except for a lighter recoil spring. The Gold Cup was carried by me for 30 yrs and needed a little TLC to bring back its youth. 185gr Nosler with 4.2gr Bullseye

Kimber LE Target Match


Gold Cup Series 80

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by BaldingEagle on 5/17/2016, 9:01 pm

Master
Thats pretty funny.  Maybe we should compare what else is in out safes.  As a matter of fact, my father bought several guns and never really fired them any, if at all.  Along with the GC,.....S&W M52, 6"Colt Python, 4" Colt Diamond Back 22LR, Colt Officers Model Match 38, 8" Colt Trooper 22 Mag.  All were bought brand new back in the 70's and early 80's except the Officers Model Match which was used but in pristine condition.  Even has the original box with the original brush taped to the inside lid with tape that has turned orange with age.  There are others that I can't think of right now.  
Anyway, he was a good man and liked to buy good guns.  
They will all be passed on to my 2 sons along with the guns that I have acquired over the years.  It's nice to have such permanent guns made by the hands of men with a talent not seen in production guns anymore.
Ok, I have rambled on long enough.........I could keep going.
I just remembered that I didn't even mention your targets.  If mine shoot that well I will be pleased.  And that's making the big assumption that I can shoot them as well as you.  Even off a rest!
All the best
Doug

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by troystaten on 5/18/2016, 2:01 pm

Seems like you would not go wrong having either gun tuned up for BE shooting, if it was me and I was going to shoot iron sights I would have the GC tuned up in a way that did not change the appearance and be pleased that I was shooting a firearm that my father gave me.  If you want to shoot with an optical sight I would have the Kimber tuned up.  Of course maybe the simple solution is to have them both worked over, one with iron sights and one with a red dot.  Let us know what you do and how it turns out.

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by LenV on 5/18/2016, 5:59 pm

The LE Kimber is a unique pistol. Kimber only made 1000 of them. That is why I am keeping mine un-tampered with so I can pass it on to my son someday. I suppose another reason I have not put a dot on it is because it has such a different slide. They make rails for the GC but the Kimber would have to be frame mounted or something custom made to fit on the slide without gaps. (shims maybe) Baldingeagle could always trade me that OM he has laying in his safe for a RO that I have set up with a dot already. Then one of us would be tickled Smile

LE Slide
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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by troystaten on 5/18/2016, 7:07 pm

Sounds like they both need to be shot, you could have the Kimber tuned and it would not look any different but it might shoot much better.  Sounds like you need to shoot them both.  Just in case you could not tell I am a big advocate of shooting nice guns event ones that might be on the collectable side.

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by BaldingEagle on 5/19/2016, 12:20 pm

Master
Not likely that I will take up you offer.  Though I appreciate it.
I have regretted every gun that I ever let go.
Doug

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Re: Box Stock 45s

Post by LenV on 5/19/2016, 12:40 pm

Doug, I only said that "one" of us would be tickled. I knew which one. Enjoy your pistols. I think back and the only pistol that I have never regretted selling was an Erma PO-8 knock off. Was a real POS. I do have very similar pistols in my safe as you but they are all older S&Ws not Colts. Model 14, 17, 19, 25, 27, 29, 39, 48, 52, 57... Guess I am a Smith guy.

Len
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