Centerfire day - strange scores

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Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by straybrit on 7/15/2016, 3:24 pm

Looking (from afar regrettably) at the scores for centerfire there's some very strange ones in there. Relay 2 in particular has some really low scores in it. What's the weather doing today?

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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by AllAces on 7/15/2016, 3:39 pm

The wind was very moderate during slow fire, but as soon as we moved to the short line it started to gust. Then the curse of Perry made an appearance.
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by Jack H on 7/15/2016, 3:44 pm

I thought the 22 scores are kind of low too. 

Overall, top 5 has 3 civilians cheers .  Go civilians. 


Sokolowski, Adam
1733-61High MasterService 
6110Hemphill, Philip
1732-72High MasterPoliceSenior
5389Lange, David
1732-47High MasterCivilian 
5194Zurek, John
1731-55High MasterCivilian 
5613Palmer, Grayson
1729-62High MasterCivilian 
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by Chris Miceli on 7/15/2016, 5:37 pm

Relay 3 today was gusty
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by SteveT on 7/15/2016, 9:10 pm

I'm surprised at the low scores. The wind on relay 3 (M & HM's) was significant, but there were plenty of lulls. I lost a few points in sustained fire because of the wind, but not as many as I lost due to the loose trigger nut.

This is the first time Camp Perry's had a bagpiper on the range in the evening for entertainment.
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by Chris Miceli on 7/15/2016, 9:23 pm

I guess I'm a lucky expert to shoot the same relays as the M and HM
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by SteveT on 7/16/2016, 9:00 pm

Christopher Miceli wrote:I guess I'm a lucky expert to shoot the same relays as the M and HM
There may be more than just luck. I may be giving the NRA more credit than they deserve, but it seems like some Sharpshooters and Experts who are moving up the ranks with improving scores get placed on the higher classification's relay.
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by john bickar on 7/16/2016, 10:30 pm

I have a (completely unscientific) theory that HMs get bounced by wind more than shooters in the lower classes do, for two reasons.

1) Simple arithmetic. A HM going from 2630 to 2580 is more noticeable than a SS going from 2425 to 2375. (Sorry, Sharpshooters)

2) Hold. A HM hold is small; a SS hold is big (again, sorry, Sharpshooters). A 15mph wind may increase a HM hold by 150%, and a SS hold by 15%.

Perry is always a test of who can shoot a pistol best out in the open, in the wind. (This is why Canton McKinley does not have covered firing points).

At any rate, I wasn't at Perry this year, so my opinions mean diddly-squat. But my guess in looking at the scores (as a HM/2650 Clubber) is that "Holy shit, it was windy this year! 2598 is a killer score in those conditions!"

Congrats to Phil Hemphill for his second National Championship. Dude works hard, has put in his time, and has earned it.
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by LenV on 7/16/2016, 10:45 pm

Christopher Miceli wrote:I guess I'm a lucky expert to shoot the same relays as the M and HM

Maybe they were just looking into their crystal ball. Chris won the collegiate division and came in 39th overall. I say he was probably where he belonged. Good shooting.
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by john bickar on 7/16/2016, 11:27 pm

OldMaster66 wrote:
Christopher Miceli wrote:I guess I'm a lucky expert to shoot the same relays as the M and HM

Maybe they were just looking into their crystal ball. Chris won the collegiate division and came in 39th overall. I say he was probably where he belonged. Good shooting.

Yup. Top 40 is better than I did. Well done.
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by Allen Barnett on 7/17/2016, 9:12 am

Chris was also 3rd overall in his class.  Super job and nice to here someone from our forum did well.

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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by Jerry Keefer on 7/17/2016, 10:04 am

Well, frankly, it's another sad chapter in the history of Camp Perry.. I am disappointed (again) to say the least.
Some of the greatest shooters on the planet, and not one broke 2600.. because we are committed to shooting in abstract conditions that prevail predictably, almost yearly.. It  is not a  fair system , as some like to suggest.. The relay with no adverse conditions gives considerable advantage to that relay. A string of 70's in a slow fire stage is doom.. I don't care who you are..
If we want to make this a tradition of enduring the elements, were only the most fit prevail, let's move the Nationals to the South Pole. The wind speeds there can be 100mph for weeks at a time, with temps in the -40s/-50s.. We  can surely separate the men from the boys..
Another complaint, that really irks me, is the practice of penalizing competitors a late fee for registration after an arbitrary date. This is 2016.. The age of the computer.. How much effort can it be to add a competitor to a spread sheet..????? $50. worth.. It's giant rip off..    The wise and empowered,  set around and moan, groan,  and expound about how to grow the sport, and then penalize the competitor. It's not difficult to have a gun box and supporting equipment worth $10,000 plus, and that doesn't even start to address travel, lodging, ammo, and many other miscellaneous expenses, to  include year round training costs..
I am running out of time, but I hope I last long enough to see this sport move to Cardinal..a venue that is far more suited to a National Championship theme.  I support Brian Zins' effort 1000% ..I have been in this game since the 60s and I am disgusted..
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by Wobbley on 7/17/2016, 1:39 pm

When I go to Perry,I want the easy relay.

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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by ak41 on 7/17/2016, 5:32 pm

Just returned from a really enjoyable week at Camp Perry.  Always amazes me that the really talented competitors that can shoot and adapt to the conditions they are given always rise to the top.  And all this for an entry fee much less than the cost of a case of CCI 22.
Al

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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by JKR on 7/17/2016, 5:53 pm

I enjoyed Perry immensely! There's always something to bitch about, but that's Perry. Had a great time traveling and shooting with my friend Chip and camping out with the great Wisconsin crowd. 

I had the great pleasure of shooting next to Christopher Micelli. He's a very good man with a 45. I predict you're going to be seeing much more of him in the future. 

Jim

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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by Chris Miceli on 7/17/2016, 6:55 pm

Thanks all for the complements I will post about my first experience and Perry prizes. Jim and other form members I hope to see you next year at the national championship
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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by weber1b on 7/19/2016, 10:16 am

I hear a lot of carping about the conditions at Perry. I am only a 4 year competitor in this sport with only two years now at Perry so I certainly do not have the background of many of the folks who have weighed in on this subject. I'm fine with shooting in uncovered conditions if that is what we think is the right thing for the Nationals. And when it's windy and rainy, it can affect all. My biggest beef is with the field itself. My firing position for the four days was not awful, but my position on the short line on Sunday for the P100 was ridiculous. I was basically standing on a ridge that ran under the arches of my feet. There was no real good way to get my feet into proper firing position. So any practice for my fundamentals etc is right out the window and you are just winging it. I can't imagine the poor souls who had to shoot from this spot for three days. It was on range three where the worst mud conditions were last year so I would think mine was not the only one. While it wouldn't be cheap, a gravel strip through the firing positions would allow for some level of truing up each year to at least allow competitors to maintain a proper stance.

I love the experience overall at Perry and do like to see traditions maintained, but all sports do evolve over time. I am looking forward to seeing what transpires over time in ours.

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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by gweber on 7/19/2016, 12:15 pm

I will say the conditions were interesting but weren't horrible. But this is coming from a person whom lives and trains in windier than usual conditions. If you only train on days that are calm then the wind affected you more. I came in 3rd in 22 because of training in non-ideal conditions. Its all about your prep.

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Re: Centerfire day - strange scores

Post by Froneck on 7/19/2016, 3:00 pm

I have been to 35 National matches at Camp Perry. This year the weather was constant for most of the day. I didn't feel major changes from 1st relay to 3rd this year but usually 3rd relay had more wind. Each year the same shooter were in the group as it was the year before though changing as shooters get older. Only one year was there a possibility that an expert had the chance to win Perry due to the weather. I don't know what can be changed, shoot indoor?? I have been to local matches that was a one day but was shot over 2 days where the weather change from one day to the other made it so that the shooter that shot the very bad weather day didn't have a chance! Also shot in local matches where weather made a difference from one relay to another though as the number of shooters gets smaller that doesn't happen often.
 I'm told that years ago everyone at Camp Perry would shoot slow fire, then everyone would shoot NMC and continue on the same for timed and rapid. That was so all had the same weather conditions but it made for a long day. Shooter were required to stay on the range all day! Wasn't there then but had a good fried that was and also slept in tents before WW2. Seems everyone welcomed the change to combine the match to one relay. The tents that were donated by small bore and used to cover the Assembly line is a great change, I can't see why they can't purchase more to cover the firing line!
 There was an attempt to cover the firing points, those covered points across the street from the theater was an attempt. For what ever reason the National Guard built it high as is noticeable by the ramp getting to it but on the target side it drops so that the shooters would have to shoot "down hill" or cat walks would have to be built to score and change targets. The project was then dropped. Least that's what we were told.
 Being that my son is in that group of top shooters I often am near when they talk about problems with the match, sometimes at Perry yet often at Dinner after the match. Weather is not considered to be a major problem, it's understood that it will happen and no one has control over it. However there are quite a few problems that are discussed that have to do with the operation of the range and the match. Too many non shooters are running the match and haven't a clue how to do it! Others are so old they are more interested in getting the match over with. That is changeable and the major topic of complaint.

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