I need 45 coaching.

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I need 45 coaching.

Post by Tim:H11 on 8/3/2016, 7:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

WHY!? Why can't I shoot the 45 any better than what I'm currently doing? At 25 yards all I got is low maybe mid 90's. Timed fire. In rapid fire I can't get all 5 off before the buzzer. I'm one shot late. Sometimes right on the buzzer. And then the groups are worse. I know sight alignment and sight picture, and trigger control. I have great scores with the 22. But why does the 45 seem so uncontrollable!? I went through 70 rounds an hour ago. All timed fire. Couldn't do better than a 96. Mostly an average of 95. It's so very frustrating to be used to good scores and groups with my other guns and things tank with the 45. pale
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Re: I need 45 coaching.

Post by Tim:H11 on 8/5/2016, 4:35 pm

Dang! I'd bet you don't have any problems gripping a 45.
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Re: I need 45 coaching.

Post by john bickar on 8/5/2016, 11:14 pm

OldMaster66 wrote:
john bickar wrote:carykiteboarder, I am literally laughing out loud at your profile pic. (I have "little teenage-girl" sized hands, so if I can poke fun at my hand size, I can poke fun at others'.)

One of the regulars on this board has giant ham hands too and I once commented that they looked like Erich Buljung and Frank Goza had a baby. You might top that Laughing

I think my hand might, maybe, cover the 10-ring - maybe even a skidder 9; I can't help you on grip advice Smile
John, I was curious also. I don't have piano player fingers but I might have him beat on mass. You be the judge. Smile

ROFL I'm pretty sure you're the guy I'm thinking of - didn't you post a picture of you holding a Model 52 and it looked like a Derringer?

I checked yesterday and I can reach the 8-ring. Ladies, I'm taken Razz
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Re: I need 45 coaching.

Post by Rob Kovach on 8/5/2016, 11:37 pm

Tim,

You talked about inability to get the gun to not move in your hand under recoil.  Inconsistent grip is a given, then.

Describing the grip that Zins taught me is difficult to describe in words, but here goes:
1. picture the target is a Marine recruit doing something stupid.
2. get pissed off at the stupid marine recruit.
3. with all of the muscles in your shooting arm clenched and locked, point at the marine recruit with a knife hand.
4. grab the .45 pistol with slab grips with your non-shooting hand
5. put the slab against the lines of your knife hand.
6.put the thumb against the other slab wherever it feels comfortable.
7. Without disturbing any other alignment of the knife hand, wrist, elbow, or anything else, wrap your fingers around the front strap and put the line of your 1st knuckle of your trigger finger on the trigger.
8. Apply the gripping force to the front and backstrap.
9. let go of the gun with the non shooting hand
10.  rebuild your stance.
11. clean the target
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Re: I need 45 coaching.

Post by CR10X on 8/6/2016, 4:09 pm

One of the local shooters asked a follow up question about my post on the grip above, questioning the pressure for the "little" finger as well.   Now that is a can of worms if you've read very much about the "pinkie" part of the hand / grip for shooting.  The comments range from "shouldn't even be there" to "heck yea its got to pull more than its own weight".  Some shooters will even back away and throw .45 brass cleaned in holy water at you if you even mention using the last finger for anything except decoration (and sometimes they show  you their middle finger for some reason).   

For me, I've come to the conclusion that the last finger should be about the same as the others on the grip, no more, no less.  I found that lesser or no pressure for the finger on the end seemed to interfere with getting consistent wrist stabilization.  I won't say I can lock my wrist the way you can lock the elbow joint into position, but using the fourth and fifth fingers at the same pressure seems to enable me to stabilize the wrist much better.  For me, I can seem to get more muscles and tendons working to stabilize the wrist if the little finger is doing some of the grip.  The wrist stabilization doesn't seem to be as consistent if there is no pressure at all from the last little guy on the grip. 

So, for me, the "littlest" finger keeps the same pressure as all the rest, and helps me stabilize the wrist better.

Like most everything else, try it and see if it fits.  (If it doesn't fit, put it back before you break it and have to pay for it.)

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Re: I need 45 coaching.

Post by carykiteboarder on 8/7/2016, 9:58 am

I am curious about pressure on the sides... palm and finger tips. Also, I think the thumb does NOT apply pressure but contact is ok/good.  I do think there is pressure on the base of the thumb to keep the gun deep in the notch of the hand. Am I off base?
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Re: I need 45 coaching.

Post by Jon Eulette on 8/7/2016, 10:57 am

Thumb pressure super important to keeping pistol from shifting in hand. Inconsistent thumb pressure will cause 2 groups. I was struggling with 2 groupings at 50 yds. I discovered since I was getting older that thumb pressure was crucial to getting rid of the problem group (8 9 ring at 1 o'clock) from the slight gun shift in the grip. It took me 6 months to retrain my grip with the added thumb pressure. Haven't 2 grouped since. I believe the Marines were all taught to grip with entire hand; fingers and all. They used to dominate the hardball matches when real military ball was being shot. Looking back I think a lot of that has to do with the harder gripping. So after retraining I'm a firm believer in you cannot use enough thumb.
Jon
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Re: I need 45 coaching.

Post by joy2shoot on 8/7/2016, 12:24 pm

If you have The Pistol Shooter's Treasury by Gil Hebard, take a look at the pictures on page 21 in the article written by Bill Blankenship.  If you do not have that book, the top picture shows his hand after holding a gun and there are pressure marks on all fingers, including small, the finger tips, the thumb and the palm.

--Thomas

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Re: I need 45 coaching.

Post by Tim:H11 on 8/7/2016, 8:58 pm

I noticed that the Bill Blankenship grip seems to be right behind the pistol. And compared to Zin's article Brian's is more off to the side. I do not know what grip I've stumbled onto, but I've got what feels like I'm griping just slightly the rear of the gun (at least where the the web of my hand goes) and mostly the side. As if I've "choked up" some on coming around he grip of the gun. Because of this my trigger finger feeds way into the guard allowing me to use the crease of the first digit knuckle of my trigger finger to use. The gun returns to position better than any other thus far but not like I had imagined a good grip would. I seem to group em a little better but more to the right. Not sure if this is more of a Zins grip or what... Just trying a few different things and comparing targets for group.
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Re: I need 45 coaching.

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