How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

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How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by Refn-fal on 9/3/2016, 1:19 pm

I am new here and I am new at Bullseye shooting. Right now I am shooting around  95's at the long line. However I was wondering how accurate my guns really are. I have used guns that were hand me downs from a dear friend, and they seem to shoot pretty good, but I'm curious how good, and thought about getting a ransom rest, and seeing what ammo works best and how good they really shoot. If nothing else, just for piece of mind to know that they shoot better then me. I understand the challenge of working a ransom rest and getting it to have very repeatable results. However I was just curious how many people here use one to set up their guns or to keep a check on them? Thank you

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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/3/2016, 2:11 pm

I personally don't have the money for one. I do happen to have a friend that has one but I've never used it. I was told once (and don't know how true or false this is) that groups off sand bags only differ by about a half of an inch to maybe an inch. Again I haven't tested or proved that idea but I sand bag my guns and have gotten results that I felt were acceptable for me where I'm at in this stage of the game. 

If you're confident and can call your shots then you could try shooting three or five targets and judge the group. If it doesn't suit you then change the load and try again. 95 at 50 yards is excellent  for marksman I would think. Probably won't stay in marksman class long.
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by noproblem on 9/3/2016, 3:06 pm

Since must bullseye shooter reload, many of us while developing a load recipe for bullets we do an accuracy test ensure we get a great match between gun and bullets using a ransom rest, bag , etc. 

95 is expert or even higher a master class, its my observation that most masters class shooter i know will shoot an expect class score at the long line and then make it up as a master class at the short line. Usually an expect class shooter takes many thousands of rounds of practice/trigger time at long line. This is AWESOME for a beginner to shoot 95 at the long line. I am new shooting for 8 months now and my best is 90 at the long line.

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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by AllAces on 9/3/2016, 4:14 pm

Even if you are a new shooter and reloader, there are many tried and true loads for the 1911 that preclude the need for a Ransom Rest.  Check around with the veteran shooters at your range.  I'm betting there is at least one that has a Ransom Rest and will help you determine your gun's accuracy.  Careful what you wish for though, you may learn your gun is not as accurate as you hoped.
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by Toz35m on 9/3/2016, 4:59 pm

an 8x scope and a sand bag is a great option to test loads.
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by Dr.Don on 9/3/2016, 5:18 pm

You can sandbag it, and I did for years.  But I use a Ransom Rest if I really want to know.  Since I build some of my own guns, I regard it as a tool I need to tell how good my results are.

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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by jglenn21 on 9/3/2016, 6:45 pm

I'm the same as the Dr.  I build my own guns so I need to know if they are good or not.  so I own a Ransom..  unfortunately I can't blame my guns... Sad
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by jmdavis on 9/3/2016, 6:55 pm

If you are shooting 95s you have a good load. What is the breakdown of shots. Are you throwing an 8?
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by john bickar on 9/3/2016, 11:38 pm

Refn-fal wrote:I am new here and I am new at Bullseye shooting. Right now I am shooting around  95's at the long line.

Rolling Eyes
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by tjpepitone on 9/4/2016, 5:19 am

I've been testing using sandbags quite a bit lately.  Although not as accurate as a RR I still find shooting off bags to be and important testing technique.  

This summer I began to suspect that my 20 year old wadgun was no longer quite shooting to call.  I verified this by shooting several groups off of bags and also, comparing them those from my backup gun.  On this basis I decided to have gun re-barreled.  

The attached photo is the very first target after getting it back, 10 rounds of Zero swaged HP/4.0 of BE shot from bags at 50 yards.  I would expect it to be a bit better from a machine rest as getting the dot centered in the black is a bit tough but the results are still useful for comparison.

I have discovered that there is more to sandbag technique then I'd expected.  Seems that the gun needs to be supported only by the bags and hands.  At one point I used a piece of low density foam under the butt and results were erratic.  Too, I find I get better 10 shot groups by shooting 4 rounds loading the 2nd magazine and finishing the rest.






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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by BE Mike on 9/4/2016, 7:16 am

Refn-fal wrote:I am new here and I am new at Bullseye shooting. Right now I am shooting around  95's at the long line. However I was wondering how accurate my guns really are. I have used guns that were hand me downs from a dear friend, and they seem to shoot pretty good, but I'm curious how good, and thought about getting a ransom rest, and seeing what ammo works best and how good they really shoot. If nothing else, just for piece of mind to know that they shoot better then me. I understand the challenge of working a ransom rest and getting it to have very repeatable results. However I was just curious how many people here use one to set up their guns or to keep a check on them? Thank you
If you are shooting 95% average at the long line, your time would be better spent training for the short line to get clean targets. Your load and pistol are good to go. If you haven't shot any matches yet, it would also behoove you to get some matches under your belt so you get used to the match shooting routine and match pressure.
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by davekp on 9/4/2016, 7:57 am

I spoke to the AMU armorers a few years ago at Camp Perry. They said they need a 1-1/2" group FOR THIRTY SHOTS from their pistols for their top shooters. (Ransom rest, 50 yds)
Also, according to the AMU speakers at the Small Arms Firing School presentation, they expect 92s from the long line, 99s timed and 98s rapid. 
These scores will make you a 2600 shooter.


Last edited by davekp on 9/5/2016, 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by Refn-fal on 9/4/2016, 9:07 am

Thank everyone for the advice and info. I am shooting an old Smith 41 with an ultra dot, and CCI SV ammo. Also a Springfield .45 with an ultra dot, and Federal brass, Saeco 68 200gr. SWC bevel base, with WLP and 4.2 gr. BE. as that was what I was told to shoot in it. I do have a couple of retired BE shooters that have been giving me pointers. One of them is in the 2650 club. I just listed myself as marksman because I haven't shoot any matches to get classified. I have been shooting 2-3 times a week, and hope to make some matches really soon. A little about me though, I have been shooting pistols for years, and have competed in idea matches for the last few years. I am an NRA pistol instructor, and a full time gunsmith. So I am new at this, but I would like to think I have a decent understanding of the fundamentals. I am on vacation with the family for the weekend, but I will post some target pictures when I get back. Thank you

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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by YourHuckleberry on 9/4/2016, 9:45 am

I don't, but I should. A Ransom Rest is on the Someday Shopping List
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by BE Mike on 9/4/2016, 12:36 pm

I need to start shooting "idea" matches. I could use a 95 average for slow fire.Twisted Evil
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by Refn-fal on 9/4/2016, 1:03 pm

Sorry, stupid auto correct. IDPA matches.

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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by fc60 on 9/5/2016, 10:40 am

Greetings,

The Random Rest is a good tool. However, are you testing the quality of the ammunition or the pistol?

Best way to test ammunition is via a barrel tester using the barrel from the pistol. Then you can replace the barrel and see if the pistol is accurate.

Cheers,

Dave

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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by SMBeyer on 9/5/2016, 12:19 pm

fc60 wrote:Greetings,

The Random Rest is a good tool. However, are you testing the quality of the ammunition or the pistol?

Best way to test ammunition is via a barrel tester using the barrel from the pistol. Then you can replace the barrel and see if the pistol is accurate.

Cheers,

Dave
Dave
I would say you are absolutely correct.  However, how many of us have access to one of those?  Out of curiosity I would love to see what my cast bullets are capable of but I'm not going to spend the time, money, and effort on such a thing.  So for me I sand bag it.  As long as there aren't unexplainable crazy fliers and the gun shoots on call I'm ok.

I do appreciate all the time guys such as yourself put into testing.  It gives us all a wealth of valuable information.

Yes you have to have a good gun and load but you don't have to have a 1.5 inch gun/load combo to shoot good scores.  I personally don't have any real idea what my gun is capable of but the last shot of slowfire in the 45 match of the last match I shot I told myself I needed another X.  When the shot broke the dot was dead center recoil was straight up.  I told myself I can't make a better shot than that.  Looked through the scope and it took off the bottom legs of the X.  Good enough for me and a 97-3x!
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by james r chapman on 9/5/2016, 12:57 pm

The ransom tests the barrel/slide/cylinder/frame relationships.

A loose slide to frame might throw shots, where sandbagging with a slide mounted scope should show you equal or better results.
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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by Wes Lorenz on 9/5/2016, 1:48 pm

james r chapman wrote:The ransom tests the barrel/slide/cylinder/frame relationships.

A loose slide to frame might throw shots,
Food for thought; During slowfire how many of you set the pistol down with the front of the slide touching the shooting bench?
Using this process = the worse your slide to frame fit the bigger your group.
Try using an ammo box and setting the pistol down on the dust cover and see if more of your shots are on call.

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Re: How many people here Ransom Rest their pistols?

Post by Jon Eulette on 9/5/2016, 1:54 pm

Wes Lorenz wrote:
james r chapman wrote:The ransom tests the barrel/slide/cylinder/frame relationships.

A loose slide to frame might throw shots,
Food for thought; During slowfire how many of you set the pistol down with the front of the slide touching the shooting bench?
Using this process = the worse your slide to frame fit the bigger your group.
Try using an ammo box and setting the pistol down on the dust cover and see if more of your shots are on call.

I think the bigger problem from resting slide on bench is not from slide to frame fit but poor bottom lug fit. Poor fit barrel will come out of battery slightly and that will open the groups considerably; typically vertical stringing.
Jon
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