What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

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What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

Post by Tim:H11 on Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

I'm gonna shoot my first hardball (service pistol? EIC?) match later this month. Currently my plans are to shoot factory Ammo but I'd like to eventually come up with a lighter recoiling jacketed load that's accurate enough for this game. I don't want to fall into having to buy multiple powders though and what I have and use regularly is Bullseye powder. 

So the questions:

What are some good jacketed loads using Bullseye powder? 

What is a good bullet weight? What is a popular design or type of bullet to use? 

I've never loaded jacked pistol Ammo before. Only lead. Crimp needs to be addressed too. 

Thanks.

Tim:H11

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Re: What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

Post by r_zerr on Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:00 pm

Jim,

The AR-15 is easier to shoot, but more importantly, it does not have to be rebuilt or rebedded every 1000-1500 rounds like an M14, M1A or M1 do. Other than that, the AR platforms shoot very well.  The big change was when rifle shooters no longer had to use issued ammo. I cannot tell you how many times I only had 20 shots left at 600 yards and was only down 5-15 points, only to end up with some score in the mid 450's because the ammo was so horrible.

My observations from almost 40 years of rifle shooting, and I expect the same from pistol (I am interested in hearing comments, probably best in another thread):
1. Guys who leg and lef out are solid experts, on their way to Master.
2. Guys who leg out are getting the process down and not making major mistakes.
3. I tell guys seeking their last points: "shoot all of your shots, with the right sight setting, and on your own target."
4. Guys who leg out either quit, or upgrade equipment and work for High Master.
5. Those who do not develop and follow a shooting process don't get leg points.
6. "Lifetime Experts" rarely leg out.
7. Those who do leg out and stay in the game often seem to have a big monkey taken off of their shoulders and really start performing well.

My overall belief is that those who get leg points now, would be getting leg points even if the old conditions were imposed: it is the drive, the effort, and the development of the fundamentals that earn them the leg.

That said: Tim, I found 4.2gr Bullseye and 185 JHP from Nosler or Magnus for short line, and 4.5 fr, BE for long line seem to work well. Unfortunately, I am following some of the same developmental patterns I list above, made worse by poor gusty winds at the leg matches. Its fun, though.
-Ron

r_zerr

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Re: What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

Post by Wes Lorenz on Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:31 pm

Wobbley wrote:
james r chapman wrote:Better to ask "Was the competition better back in the day"
The high individual in the Rifle National Trophy Team match was just broken.  The new record is 500-15X set by Sgt. Antonio DiConza.  This beat the record set by SSG Don Manning of 499-28X set in 1986.  So the competition is as good now as it was then. 
Hi all,
I couldn't help chiming in here since Don Manning built my first M14 that I earned most of my leg points with.
I believe these were team matches which allows a coach to scope and call windage adjustments.
1986 - SSG Manning shot an M14 (that he probably built) with iron sights, issued ammo and real recoil.
2016 - SGT DiConza shot an M16 with a 4x scope, a much better trigger, handloaded ammo specifically for his barrel and very minimal recoil.
Both awesome scores shot in different eras where different rules applied. So the competition is as good now as it was then.
Like Cecil says:the shooters who dryfire and practice everyday will always post awesome scores.
From myself a very big Thank You goes to SSG Manning for running all of the Regional matches at Ft. Lewis for so long, they were the best!!!
Wes

Tim, I use Montana Gold 185gr JHP's, 4.2grs TiteGroup, Win primer, Starline brass at 1.200 OAL. I tested the Montana Golds against Noslers and both shot equal 1.250" groups.

Wes Lorenz

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Re: What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

Post by Dave C. on Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:30 pm

5.1 grains of BE and a 230 FMJ.
My first 3 hard legs all exceeded 275.
Did not have or need min. scores.
Match ammo was handed out on the line, you shot what you got.

Dave C.

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Re: What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

Post by DeweyHales on Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:02 am

Dave C. wrote:Match ammo was handed out on the line, you shot what you got.
I think we'd all love to get some free ammo. Until those days return, the best competitors will use whatever the rules specify that shoots best for them.

With 230s, I like 4.2 of Clays or Clay Dot. Titegroup, N310, and BE-86 all work great too. 

With 185 JHPs, I like BE-86 and N310.

DeweyHales

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Re: What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

Post by Fire Escape on Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:23 am

DeweyHales wrote:
Dave C. wrote:Match ammo was handed out on the line, you shot what you got.
I think we'd all love to get some free ammo. Until those days return, the best competitors will use whatever the rules specify that shoots best for them.

With 230s, I like 4.2 of Clays or Clay Dot. Titegroup, N310, and BE-86 all work great too. 

With 185 JHPs, I like BE-86 and N310.

Free ammo is not always a blessing. When AR's began showing up for matches (where distinguished points were being awarded) there was no 'Official Match Ammo' to be handed out for them. Those shooting an M-1 or M1A had to shoot whatever they were handed on the line while AR shooters could shoot anything that they brought. None of us shooting the 'old fashioned' guns would have complained about having to bring our own ammo (that we had zeros for!) vs getting the free stuff. I don't know how long that continued, the amount of my shooting time spent waiting for the floaters to move away from front and center of my vision took me out of anything but slow fire.

Bruce

Fire Escape

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Re: What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

Post by Froneck on Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:43 am

When free Ammo was issued, no one could shoot with their own. It was not even supposed to be in the shooting box. Match ammo was not issued every year for Pistol, the white box match was usually supplied but some years the not match brown box was issued however everyone was issued the same ammo though in later years there were mixed lots numbers. TZZ ammo was issued a few years until the Marines found it to be hotter and designed to be shot in a machine gun not pistol so it was no longer issued. Ammo was issued by the box of 50. Eventually only the amount of rounds necessary to shoot the match was issued in plastic bags. If a shooter didn't have a "Ball" legal pistol one would be issued by the DCM with a box of ammo to test the gun on the function range. When the DCM was changed to the CMP ammo was difficult to get by the CMP so they changed to competitor  supplying their own 230 FMJ factory ammo. (Probably were more interested in selling anything they received rather than give it to the shooters) later reloads were allowed which opened the can of many cheating with low powered loads. That and Obummers ammo grab limited the supply of ball ammo. Ammo requirement were lowered and eventually other guns never used by the services were allowed too.

Froneck

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Re: What are some 45 "Hardball" Loads?

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