Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

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Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by willnewton on Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:08 am

Our local indoor bullseye group does not shoot for official NRA competition classifications, so I have used http://mqp.nra.org to track my progress in Conventional Bullseye Pistol Qualification category.

I am sure there are many folks here that are working on it, but I didn't turn up much in the search results.  I just want to see what others folks think about it.  The nice part is that shooting distances are flexible, as long as you are using the correct target for a given distance, so you can shoot from 50, 25, 20 yards or even 50, 25 feet.  We shoot 25 yards for our indoor league with B-16 SF and B-8 TF/RF targets.

If I am discouraged by a low scoring session, it has been a great motivator to look back and see how much I have improved over the past few months by looking at the big picture rather than the past 60-90 shots of a league night.

It has also kept me motivated because there are goals in place to chase after.  No matter what rank I have been I am looking forward to getting the next one and putting in the practice required to get there.

It runs on the honor system, and you can count regular practice rounds towards scoring, but I use my League Night scores so I know the shooting conditions and scores reflect a competitive environment vs. a more comfortable practice situation.

My current status: Just recorded my first Expert level aggregrate score, so I am pretty happy to acheive that.  

I am also tracking my progress using the SF, TF, and RF rounds scoring and am about to finish up my Sharpshooter bars, which I should wrap up soon.  It is taking a little longer to get through the rounds vs. aggregates scoring as there are more initial steps in the rounds scoring setup and there are only so many league nights in a week.

Anyone else working through it?  How are you doing?
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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by dronning on Sun Sep 18, 2016 3:33 am

Any regimented program to improve your shooting is a good thing.  Having goals is important.  Many bullseye shooters use the USMC Pistol Team Workbook as their primary training tool.

http://www.bullseyeforum.net/t5966-usmc-pistol-team-workbook

The goals in the USMC workbook are more aggressive than the NRA course and if you are progressing well I'd take a look at the USMC course. 

- Dave
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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by willnewton on Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:56 am

I have seen the USMC workbook and looked it over a few months ago. At the time, even the first practice session goals seemed out of reach for my skills at the time.  

Since then, I have been soaking up info from books and the internet, practicing at the range and dry firing or shooting air pistol at home, competing locally, and added a couple of nicer target pistols to my range bag and started reloading.  In fact, I was getting overloaded with so much newness that my scores were regressing and I was getting frustrated.

However, a few weeks ago, some vital connections from brain to trigger finger seem to have finally solidified and my scores took a solid leap.  I still have some unexcusable fliers, but generally my groups have shrunk from entire target sized to mostly in the black.  

 Two weeks ago, our best .45 shooter had a couple of rough rounds and I had a couple of my best .45 TF/RF scores to date.  He and I were looking at the scorecards and surprised to see that I passed him by a couple of points those rounds.   Smile

I am really glad you mentioned it, because after revisiting the workbook again this morning, it seems that the practice targets which looked so tiny a few months ago are much larger now!
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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by Wobbley on Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:22 pm

The USMC workbook is daunting. But the USMC picks its precision pistol team from scores fired in divisional matches using the combat course. So the shooters selected have a steep learning curve for precision pistol.

That said, the exercises will get you to at least expert pretty quickly. The key is to not overtrain and it helps to have a mentor.

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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by robert84010 on Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:33 am

Wobbley wrote:The USMC workbook is daunting.  But the USMC picks its precision pistol team from scores fired in divisional matches using the combat course.  So the shooters selected have a steep learning curve for precision pistol. 
unless things have changed recently, the division matches have always been national match course type shooting. One handed at 25 yards with rack grade pistols. They have other courses that are combat courses but not at the division matches.

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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by bdutton on Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:51 pm

I use it for my junior rifle program.  Its better than nothing.  Actual live fire competition in matches is best.
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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by motorheadjohn on Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:39 pm

I completed (Distinguished Expert) the Aggregate Skill Course of Fire in July, with 22 and iron sights.  Took me about a year to get the scored needed for DE with irons.  Smile

I'm still working through the program in 45.  It helps me track and stay focused on improvement with the big gun.  There is only one league near me that shoots the .45, so I only have enough scores to be in Marksman First Class.  The scores are 240s-260s depending, so roughly expert level, and plenty of room to improve still.  I need to start reloading for 45 and shooting this gun more, follow the workbook, etc.

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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by willnewton on Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:44 pm

Congrats on your irons DE!  Cool

I started reloading .45 a month or so ago and have learned a lot from reading here, youtube, and fellow shooters.  It is already paying off financially and in my scores.  I am still working on making the perfect bullet for my gun, but have found it's not too hard to make a very good one.  Wink
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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by jgb133 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:13 am

I have completed two programs so far and I'm currently working on 2 others. Achieving the "Distinguished Expert" rating is a nice accomplishment, but it's not that difficult. I really enjoy doing these. I like shooting and I have always been goal oriented and this allows me to explore different disciplines with a purpose. The different programs do improve your fundamentals if you are a marginal shooter (like myself). The air pistol program really has me hooked. I think that these are really setup for younger people, but I don't care. I hope to complete the two I'm working on now and then do more as time allows. I 'm a big fan.
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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by Chris Miceli on Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:00 am

willnewton wrote:Congrats on your irons DE!  Cool

I started reloading .45 a month or so ago and have learned a lot from reading here, youtube, and fellow shooters.  It is already paying off financially and in my scores.  I am still working on making the perfect bullet for my gun, but have found it's not too hard to make a very good one.  Wink
Where in eastern NC are you?
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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by willnewton on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:07 am

I'm in Wilson.  My sister used to live in Wilmington, now she is in Wallace, so I used to get down there every once in a while.  I'd love to shoot with you some time.  I'm sure I can pick up some pointers.
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Re: Anyone shooting the Winchester/NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program?

Post by Slartybartfast on Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:45 pm

Just had a closer look at the Bullseye Qualification.
https://mqp.nra.org/media/4198/conventional-bullseye.pdf

Seems there might be an error or two under "Target and Distance Options" 

NRA pdf wrote:Any of the following targets and distance combinations may be used: TQ-6 slow fire target and TQ-7 timed and rapid fire target at 25 feet. B-2 slow fire target and B-3 timed and rapid fire target at 50 feet. B-16 slow fire target and B-8 timed and rapid fire target at 25 yards. B-6 slow fire target at 50 yards, and B-8 timed and rapid fire target at 25 yards. B-4 target at 20 yards.

I thought it odd that there was no rapid fire target at 20 yards. So, I looked at the Kruger targets website (http://www.kruger-us-targets.com/index.php/targets/nra-official-competition-targets/pistol.html) and they list the B-5 as the 20 yd timed and rapid fire target.

So, seems the NRA document should read:

Slartybartfast - Correction of NRA conventional-bullseye.pdf wrote:Any of the following targets and distance combinations may be used:

  • TQ-6 slow fire target and TQ-7 timed and rapid fire target at 25 feet.
  • B-2 slow fire target and B-3 timed and rapid fire target at 50 feet.
  • B-4 slow fire target and B-5 timed and rapid fire target at 20 yards.
  • B-16 slow fire target and B-8 timed and rapid fire target at 25 yards.
  • B-6 slow fire target at 50 yards, and B-8 timed and rapid fire target at 25 yards.


Added bullets. Makes it much easier to read and comprehend. Makes sense of the two distance 50yd/25yd course of fire.
Added B-5 at 20 yards.
Re-ordered by distance.
(This is just my life as a technical documentation specialist talking)

Now I need to compare the ISSF 20yd target and the NRA B-4. Assuming 1:1, I might be shooting at Sharpshooter Bar 6 levels in slow fire with my 22lr SW22 Victory. But I have many, many targets to shoot and collect, and of course need to start doing the timed and rapid fire portions to earn the title. Who knows how well I'll do at them.

Life total of 10 fired slow-fire targets, averaging in the 70's. So guess I've earned a "Marksman" rating.  Cool

The NRA program has more classification levels than the Shooting Federation of Canada crest award system.

Thanks for the link.
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