Swiss Army Pistol

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Swiss Army Pistol

Post by Jon Eulette on 9/24/2016, 10:44 pm

You know its already been done. Build a 1911 45 with Bo-mar adj. sight. Have scope rib mounted between sights and remove it for eic match. Use 22 conversion on 45 frame and get the rib that has irons and can mount a scope. Remove scope for 22 eic. So one pistol can shoot full 2700 and both 22 and big boy eic matches. When I got back into BE I was shooting 22 conversion with 2# sear spring and switched to 3.5# sear spring and 45 upper for CF and 45 matches.
Definately makes it more affordable. Also doesn't force you to stand at your safe and wonder which 22 pistol your going to shoot because you have too many choices :l)
Jon
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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by LenV on 9/25/2016, 12:35 am

You can't have too many choices Jon. And don't forget DR Smile
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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by jmdavis on 9/25/2016, 12:38 am

I can't say that I am using the Swiss Army method. But I will have a 22 with irons and rail in the next week or two. I have been mostly practicing (dryfire and live fire) with the 45. What I've found is that my 22 scores are the same, but my 45 scores are getting much better ( I had a lot of room for improvement). 

I also think that shooting the conversion with irons is a big help. I shot a personal best with the 22 and irons last Wednesday. It wasn't spectacular. But for me a 279p-4x is a personal best with irons. Heck, that's what I was shooting with the Pardini and dot a few months ago.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and advice on guns and shooting.
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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by john bickar on 9/25/2016, 10:02 am

I thought this was going to be about the SIG P210.
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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by Jon Eulette on 9/25/2016, 10:24 am

john bickar wrote:I thought this was going to be about the SIG P210.

I got the topic name from another post. I hate to be so misleading :l)
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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by jmdavis on 9/25/2016, 11:25 am

So a 210 with the 22 conversion could be a swiss army (knife) pistol. I have a friend that is selling two 210s one with box paperwork and 22 conversion and a second newer model from Pilkington?
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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by robert84010 on 9/25/2016, 1:45 pm

Jon,
Below what level do you recommend a new shooter concentrate on just shooting irons/ball gun. I was told when I started to just concentrate on getting distinguished and shooting irons until I broke 2600. I think that is a pretty lofty goal for someone that has a job and only shoots on the weekends but I do think someone should just have a simple ballgun/22 conversion type kit with a well worn reloading press until well into the 2500 region.
For instance there is a current Coast Guard shooter that is a friend of a friend that made master/DP/22Disitnguished with just a ball gun and iron sighted 22. He just started to use a dot but has over 50K rounds through that ball gun.
Just curious.

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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by Jon Eulette on 9/25/2016, 5:12 pm

Well there's really a lot of factors that contribute to shooting well. I've had conversations over the years with champion shooters and most of them and myself included believe you should shoot both irons and dot. For training you can't beat a dot. The dot tells you things that are harder to see with irons. The other factor is how much money you can afford to spend on BE guns and equipment. Buy the best you can afford and then learn how to shoot it. I think the military has ruined more shooters by making them shoot ball for cf and 45 aggregates. Tendonitis has plagued most military shooters back in the day from shooting to much  hardball. I think there are a lot of old time military shooters that think that way because thats how they did it so it has to be right. There are some really good iron sight shooters out there. They are few and far between these days. Back in the mid 70's Reiter and Makin were averaging 2650's  shooting iron sights. John Bickar is an outstanding iron sight shooter. He switched to dots and is now a 2660 shooter. If he would've switched much sooner I believe he would've shot that score decades ago. So I believe cross training between irons and dots is crucial to development and climbing the classification ladder. 
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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by Wobbley on 9/25/2016, 5:20 pm

I think shoot dots on the 22 and irons other calls until you can shoot 10s at will pretty consistently at the 25 yard line. This doesn't mean that you have to clean the target it just means the shot-recovery-shot is pretty predictable. By this time you should be an expert.

I agree that shooting hardball exclusively causes bigger problems. Better to shoot softball loads in training and practice.

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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by Wes Lorenz on 9/25/2016, 10:09 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Well there's really a lot of factors that contribute to shooting well. believe you should shoot both irons and dot. For training you can't beat a dot. The dot tells you things that are harder to see with irons. The other factor is how much money you can afford to spend on BE guns and equipment. Buy the best you can afford and then learn how to shoot it. So I believe cross training between irons and dots is crucial to development and climbing the classification ladder. 
Jon
I agree with Jon wholeheartedly. I bought a GSP for $1600 in 1991 and thought I was crazy. Did very well with it learning iron sights and learning dots in BE on an HS. For a civilian, I had a very short learning curve. I feel it's a good thing new shooters can handload for service pistol EIC's, no pain and those who train earn the points. When I was earning my points, Washington State was providing IMI "machine gun" .45 ball and it was accurate, but was no fun to shoot. I had a 24lb recoil spring in my 1911.
Grow the sport!,
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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by robert84010 on 9/25/2016, 11:11 pm

I agree with the training value of using a dot. I think the guys that told me about sticking to irons meant don't get into shooting matches with one. training is fine. One guy mentioned just putting a dot on the 22 but keep the 45 as a ball gun.  Nobody ever mentioned shooting ball for an entire agg. to me. But focusing on the simplicity of the fundamentals with the ball gun was their main intention. I think i've only shot two hardball 900's, once at interservice and once at Phoenix.
Thanks.

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Re: Swiss Army Pistol

Post by john bickar on 9/25/2016, 11:23 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:
john bickar wrote:I thought this was going to be about the SIG P210.

I got the topic name from another post. I hate to be so misleading :l)
Jon

C'mon, you know I had to!

Jon Eulette wrote:I think the military has ruined more shooters by making them shoot ball for cf and 45 aggregates. Tendonitis has plagued most military shooters back in the day from shooting to much  hardball. I think there are a lot of old time military shooters that think that way because thats how they did it so it has to be right.

Agreed. One positive outcome of the switch away from 230gn "hardball" is, "hey, you don't have to blow your elbow out!"

Jon Eulette wrote:John Bickar is an outstanding iron sight shooter.

Thank you for saying so.

Jon Eulette wrote:He switched to dots and is now a 2660 shooter. If he would've switched much sooner I believe he would've shot that score decades ago.

Eh, maybe, maybe not. I picked up couple of other things in the past few years that got me from the high '30s to 60 (and note that I've never shot in the 2650s, just 2660 once and a handful in the 2640s since 2013, all with a dot). With those things, I think I probably would have broken 2650 with irons, but the dot certainly makes those last few strings at the short line of a one-day 2700 go a little more smoothly. We don't shoot multiple-day 2700s around here, so my only chance to break 2650 (or 2670) is in a one-day 2700, and those are marathons.
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