Need Help With Nelson FTF

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Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/26/2016, 5:34 pm

Just got my Nelson and I'm on the line now trying it out. Shoot like a house a' fire! But! Every few rounds it doesn't pick one up. Probably too heavy of a hammer spring. But my main concern is that sometimes it goes click not bang and the rim has no imprint. Not a light strike. NO strike. What's causing this?
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by jglenn21 on 9/26/2016, 5:39 pm

tell us more about your 1911 you have your conversion sitting on..
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/26/2016, 5:44 pm

RO with Wilson combat hammer. Trigger set to 3.5# and 30# ILS mainspring which is stock for the RO.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by jglenn21 on 9/26/2016, 5:53 pm

you most likely do need a lighter main spring.. Me, I'd ditch the ILS and use a 19lb conventional spring... that's what I use on my Nelson with no issues...

on the click/ no bang does it feed a round into the chamber.. when it happens I'd stop and look closely to see if the slide is all the way forward.. also check to see if your hammer is dragging.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/26/2016, 5:57 pm

jglenn21 wrote:you most likely do need a lighter main spring.. Me, I'd ditch the ILS and use a 19lb conventional spring... that's what I use on my Nelson with no issues...

on the click/ no bang does it feed a round into the chamber.. when it happens I'd stop and look closely to see if the slide is all the way forward.. also check to see if your hammer is dragging.

Click no bang - yes it chambers a round. Seems to be fully in battery when it happens.

When looking to see if the hammer is dragging - what would it be dragging on?
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Sc0 on 9/26/2016, 6:02 pm

I have used 23 and 19lb main springs without issues, non-ils.  Also check the hammer height when it is against the slide, some hammers are taller than others and it might be hitting the steel top rail of the Nelson unit... (Taurus PT1911 did that to mine.)


Last edited by Sc0 on 9/26/2016, 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by jglenn21 on 9/26/2016, 6:08 pm

could be dragging on the slide as the hammer falls.. look for scratches
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/26/2016, 6:12 pm

Sc0 wrote:I have used 23 and 19lb main springs without issues, non-ils.  Also check the hammer height when it is against the slide, some hammers are taller than others and it might be hitting the steel top rail of the Nelson unit... (Taurus PT1911 did that to mine.)


Nope. Hammer clears the rail. Just checked. Originally I put in a standard MSH with a 19# spring. Cycled fine. But I had some failure to fire. So thats when I put in the 30# spring and housing back in to try it. Some now and then wouldn't cycle so I thought ok too heavy but still some failure to fire. Not as bad but not good really. I only went through 100 rounds and had maybe 15 give or take issues.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Jon Eulette on 9/26/2016, 6:19 pm

Tim you need to double check that your overtravel screw on the trigger isn't set up too tight. If it is the half cock can hit the sear and hammer will not make full contact with firing pin.
Jon
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/26/2016, 6:26 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:Tim you need to double check that your overtravel screw on the trigger isn't set up too tight. If it is the half cock can hit the sear and hammer will not make full contact with firing pin.
Jon

Checked it. Nope. Go fish. I held the hammer and pulled the trigger, and while holding the trigger slowly let the hammer down to feel for bumps (half cock or sear). Didn't feel anything. Hammer made full contact into firing pin.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by r_zerr on 9/26/2016, 6:29 pm

make certain the slide is going all the way forward. If not, then the other culprits like recoil spring, extractor, smooth feed from mag under the extractor, etc.

-ron

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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by jglenn21 on 9/26/2016, 6:36 pm

is this a 45 RO
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/26/2016, 6:40 pm

jglenn21 wrote:is this a 45 RO

Yes this is a 45 Range Officer. 

Slide does go fully into battery. Ammo is CCI Standard. Hammer doesn't seem to be dragging or rubbing anywhere.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Jon Eulette on 9/26/2016, 6:41 pm

Just saw you said you have 30# mainspring.....NOT!
Get rid of that thing. Like others said go to standard 19# and ditch the ILS crap. Nothing but trouble.
Jon
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by messenger on 9/26/2016, 6:51 pm

When my Nelson would'nt pick up the next round I changed the 9lb recoil spring to an 8lb. Never had another problem. Don't know about the no strike. When my Marvels would'nd fire it was a broken firing pin.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Jon Eulette on 9/26/2016, 7:02 pm

messenger wrote:When my Nelson would'nt pick up the next round I changed the 9lb recoil spring to an 8lb. Never had another problem. Don't know about the no strike. When my Marvels would'nd fire it was a broken firing pin.

I run 8# recoil spring in all my builds.
Jon
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by jglenn21 on 9/27/2016, 9:29 am

Tim I'd definitely loosen the trigger stop at least 1/2 turn and try it with live fire...easy enough to put back if that doesn't help.. live fire is always a bit different than working the parts manually..


have you check the pin for free movement.. you should be able to easily push it forward till it stops.. at that point the nose should be even with the bolt face.. seen dirt get in the channel and cause light strikes so....
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/27/2016, 3:50 pm

Well I had a good chat with Larry and I've got an 8# spring ordered and on the way. His thoughts was the recoil spring spring would be his first guess and typically in a range officer he says its usually the fix. So when it gets here I'll try it out and see. Another thought (KC) was keeping the chamber clean. I'll try the "plunk" test this evening. I've got something to tinker with for now and it'll be a good fit in the pistol box I'm sure.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Keyholed on 9/29/2016, 1:31 am

Tim--

Check the tightness on the guide rod. Overtightening it causes exactly the problem you describe. I usually tighten it just until I start to feel resistance, and then give it 1/8th of a turn more (slightly less than the instructions dictate). Then I check to ensure it's solidly on the frame.

It was quite quite frustrating working out the fail-to-feed/fail-to-fire problems on my Nelson, but absolutely worth it.

I switched over to a 19# mainspring, and a pound lighter recoil spring (but recently went back to stock recoil spring with no problems).

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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/29/2016, 8:37 pm

I called Nelson's on Tuesday, and today (Thursday) I received my new 8# recoil spring. Dang that was fast!!!

CCI Standard was running good for about 40 rounds then I couldn't get through a mag. Cleaned it, oiled it, and it ran ok. But 40 rounds and then problems isn't satisfactory. So I dropped the 30# ILS to a 28# ILS and so far (only 20 rounds) it didn't have any issues. More time and ammo with tell the truth.

I understand most run a 19# hammer spring with their conversions. I have to run a much heavier hammer spring to slow my slide down on the 45 to get it to group any good at 50 yards. The slide comes out of battery too fast. So when I switch uppers from a 45 to a 22 I run the risk of issues. But hopefully with this lighter recoil spring and a tad lighter hammer spring - maybe this will be a working combination. 

Like I said only time and more ammo with tell. Right now I don't have another frame so I need to get the gun to work with both. 

I will say that it far out shoots my older 41 which I now have sold to my mentor. He seemed interested in it, and I was fed up trying to get it to be reliable. I parted with it, two sets of grips, and three mags. Now I have the Nelson and if I can get both the 45 and 22 running good together I'm much happier.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by jglenn21 on 9/29/2016, 9:50 pm

one thing you can try on your 45 to slow the slide a bit is the EGW flat firing pin stop.. they have to be fit but are square on the bottom.. put a slight radius on it and try it...  I run one on my EIC gun and it helps with felt recoil. they also fit your extractor much better eliminating any possible canting of the extractor.

they should allow you to run a lighter mainspring
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/30/2016, 4:57 am

jglenn21 wrote:one thing you can try on your 45 to slow the slide a bit is the EGW flat firing pin stop.. they have to be fit but are square on the bottom.. put a slight radius on it and try it...  I run one on my EIC gun and it helps with felt recoil. they also fit your extractor much better eliminating any possible canting of the extractor.

they should allow you to run a lighter mainspring

Already got one in the gun thanks.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Tim:H11 on 9/30/2016, 7:09 pm

Well 28# did not work now I'm at 26#. And I tested the 45 slide with the 26# spring and I didn't seem to see any great loss in group size at 50. Ran more 22 though it with the 26# pound spring and I think this might work for now.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by Magnusbullets on 10/3/2016, 11:36 am

Be sure to keep the chamber clean, use a 25 caliber brush. Don't go too deep. Carbon builds up, slows extractions. Failure to feed.

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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

Post by jmdavis on 10/3/2016, 1:16 pm

In my experience CCI standard is famous for carbon and lube buildup. It also tends to be longer than the other rounds we use in bullseye and to have more variation. 

None of this seems to affect accuracy as long as you can make it cycle and feed reliably.
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Re: Need Help With Nelson FTF

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