Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

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Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by Ghillieman on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:13 am

Read this article to see which states want to ban hollow point ammunition.

http://thebostontribune.com/22-states-agree-gun-control-law-banning-hollow-point-ammunition/

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by john bickar on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:42 am

http://www.snopes.com/tag/the-boston-tribune/

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by dronning on Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:58 am

Snopes Quote:
"While Associated Media Coverage may be changing their name to The Boston Tribune, their content is still nothing more than fake news."


They do mix in some real news trying to make themselves look credible, but it's always "embellished" with false info..


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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by rich.tullo on Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:30 pm

Someone that works for a government agency told me any reloads will always be a problem in a shooting case. The best thing to do is consult your local PD and see what they use and buy that or FBI service ammo. Remember ever bullet shot in anger in the US has a lawsuit attached. 

Anything with a cap tip on it should be OK, In the people's republic of NJ I use Hornady Critical Defense. 

RT

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by weber1b on Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:37 pm

I use hollow points in competition. I use them on the long line for my 45 and for ball ammo as they are now allowed by rule.

As far as my carry gun, I use hollow points but only factory loads. You will have enough of an issue if you shoot someone. You don't want to give them another reason to push their case in that you used souped up ammo made at home.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by rich.tullo on Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:39 pm

Yup , I use Zero HPs never a problem for target shooting just if you use it in self defense.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by dronning on Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:49 pm

In the case of conceal carry, if you have to defend yourself, never be put in a position where you have to explain your loads (reloads) in court, use the same loads law enforcement uses, such as Federal HST or Winchester Ranger.  These hollow point and frangible rounds are designed not to pass through the perp. this is finally understood as a safety consideration.  If you use what law enforcement uses their choice of ammo goes on trial not yours.

- Dave

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by Skid on Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:47 am

Interesting dronning do you work in law enforcement or did you ? how did you come about this opinion to use what law enforcement uses ? a conceal carry class ?

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by Wobbley on Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:15 am

It is a bit of an old wives tale that if you use reloads or hollow point reloads particularly, that the plaintiffs' attorney will try to use that against you.

But there is another rationale for using a factory loaded round and that is the predictability. The functionality is predictable, the accuracy is predictable, and the expansion is predictable. This even applies when you change production runs or lots provided you use the same brand and bullet. Most people can't say that about their hand loads.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by SmokinNJokin on Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:20 pm

Dave makes an excellent point, and I agree. Using law enforcement ammo is a wise move. Removes another variable that could put you in jail when you are on trial for shooting someone.

There are a lot of good articles out there arguing why you should especially not carry reloads.

http://www.gundigest.com/concealed-carry-news/reloaded-carry-ammo-good-idea

In my mind, it's not worth the risk. Spend a few bucks and buy a box of JHP carry ammo.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by Sc0 on Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:54 pm

I use anything that is reliable, accurate, and available.  
Military, LE, civilian, reload, etc.

Now for competition I recently picked up a NM Beretta and plan on feeding it 115gr HAP jacketed rounds for the long line.  They have a reputation for being an accurate bullet and are cheaper than the other Hornady hollow point bullet.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by orpheoet on Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:08 pm

I use Zero 185 gr for the long line and EIC. However I always use factory hollow points for my concealed carry. Hydro shock or HST. I also only carry factory original guns. I hope I never have to use my concealed handgun but if I do I want my weapon and ammo to be 100% beyond reproach.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by LenV on Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:09 am

I also use 185gr Zero, Nosler or HAP for long line and EIC. However, for CC and the extremely small chance I will ever need it I carry what I feel to be the most effective.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by dronning on Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:37 am

Skid wrote:Interesting dronning do you work in law enforcement or did you ? how did you come about this opinion to use what law enforcement uses ? a conceal carry class ?

Several advanced hands on self defense classes, including one with Rob Pincus.  I just renewed my permit and the class was taught by 3 ex law enforcement professionals.  75% of the 4 1/2 hour class was all about how to keep from being prosecuted if you ever had to defend yourself.  Ammo was talked about in depth.

- Dave

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by dronning on Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:49 am

Wobbley wrote:It is a bit of an old wives tale that if you use reloads or hollow point reloads particularly, that the plaintiffs' attorney will try to use that against you.  

When a case is close adding the reloaded ammo issue to the mix is not worth the risk of doing jail time.  It gives the prosecutor an advantage to make you look like someone looking for a fight with "custom killing ammo" it's just not worth risking having to explain your ammo to a jury that won't understand it.

The same reason you shouldn't carry +P ammo or a 44 mag as a carry piece.  It gives an ambitious prosecutor something to confuse the jury with.

- Dave

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by Wobbley on Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:30 am

There haven't been many instances of prosecutors going after people that used reloads in justified shootings. If it has happened it has been the families in the wrongful death civil trial.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by dronning on Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:57 am

Wobbley wrote:There haven't been many instances of prosecutors going after people that used reloads in justified shootings.  If it has happened it has been the families in the wrongful death civil trial.  

Agreed, but "haven't been many" is not a chance I'm willing to take, I'm not going to give ANY anti-2A prosecutor any more ammo (pun intended) they could use against me.

- Dave

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by HenryA on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:22 pm

dronning wrote:snipped a bit.....

  75% of the 4 1/2 hour class was all about how to keep from being prosecuted if you ever had to defend yourself.  Ammo was talked about in depth.

- Dave

Was that really a good place to get sound legal advice?
I'd ask a lawyer who has actually tried some self defense shooting cases.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by dronning on Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:59 pm

HenryA wrote:
dronning wrote:snipped a bit.....

  75% of the 4 1/2 hour class was all about how to keep from being prosecuted if you ever had to defend yourself.  Ammo was talked about in depth.

- Dave

Was that really a good place to get sound legal advice?
I'd ask a lawyer who has actually tried some self defense shooting cases.

Actually all 3 instructors are ex law enforcement and all 3 instructors have testified in both legal and civil cases.  They have also gotten opinions from multiple attorneys on the subject - not your typical CC class.  They know how the system works from the first officer on the scene to the end result.  Theirs is not legal advice it's practical advise based on how the system works.  One of their 1st pieces of advice is to find an attorney you can work with as soon as you get your permit, DO NOT wait until you need one and don't have time to vet them out.  This is why their classes are booked so far in advance.

- Dave

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by Jack H on Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:19 pm

A legal eagle said to my group that your "personal protection" ammo should always be new, and the box labeled as "personal protection" or "defense" or similar.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by LenV on Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:11 am

I never actually took a class to get my CC permit. Might be worth doing sometime. You don't have to take any classes (In Oregon) when your DD214 has your secondary MOS as OOD4H "National Match Pistol Instructor". Actually just being a card carrying Bullseye shooter in Oregon exempts you from taking any classes.

Len

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

Post by jglenn21 on Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:15 am

Day in and day out the HST has proven itself to be on the top of the class in most calibers other than the 380. It's all I run in my carry guns.. 

The best reason to carry factory HPs is that they have been tested by tons of folks. Lots of balistic tests out there.

No classes required in GA either Len.

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Re: Do you use hollow point bullets in competition?

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