What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

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What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by cdrt on Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:08 pm

Or can it be done?
I'm trying to duplicate the Bullseye load of 3.5 grains with both 185 and 200 grain lead SWC bullets using WST.
The 185 grain load with BE runs around 770 fps.  The 200 grain load runs around 730 fps.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by DavidR on Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:55 pm

WST is a little slower powder than BE,  you can see on the burn chart below. In my findings it takes .2-.4 tenths more of WST to get close to the same power factor as BE. So that wold make 3.8 wst a good starting point for your load.
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/equivalents.asp

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by cdrt on Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:37 pm

Thanks. I will give that a try.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by jglenn21 on Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:53 pm

if you have a chronograph or access to one.. try matching velocities

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by noylj on Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:49 am

3.5gn of Bullseye produces from 670-785 fps with 185gn L-SWC, depending on the gun I test. You are getting towards the upper reach of that range. Point being, you have to do the test in YOUR gun to find what works in YOUR gun. I know that there are folks shooting 3.8gn WST, so you can try to copy what is already being used.
For 3.5gn Bullseye and 200gn L-SWC, I have gotten from 650-735fps in different guns, and 735fps with 4.0gn WST in one gun. Again, 3.7-3.8gn seems to be what other BE shooters have used.


PS: I haven't done much WST testing because accuracy in MY guns was disappointing.


Last edited by noylj on Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Flood control is irritating...)

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by messenger on Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:55 am

All those loads seem light to me. I love WST. On the long line behind a Zero 185 LSWCHP I use 4.6 gr WST and 4.2 gr on the short line. That is with a slide mounted Aimpoint H1.

Bill

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by JIMPGOV on Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:50 am

messenger wrote:All those loads seem light to me. I love WST. On the long line behind a Zero 185 LSWCHP I use 4.6 gr WST and 4.2 gr on the short line. That is with a slide mounted Aimpoint H1.

Bill
I AGREE WITH BILL. 4.2- 4.3 OF WST IS THE WAY TO GO. JIM P

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by DavidR on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:06 am

messenger wrote:All those loads seem light to me. I love WST. On the long line behind a Zero 185 LSWCHP I use 4.6 gr WST and 4.2 gr on the short line. That is with a slide mounted Aimpoint H1.

Bill
FMJ always requires more powder than lead, so lighter loads work for lead.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by messenger on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:54 am

DavidR wrote:
messenger wrote:All those loads seem light to me. I love WST. On the long line behind a Zero 185 LSWCHP I use 4.6 gr WST and 4.2 gr on the short line. That is with a slide mounted Aimpoint H1.

Bill
FMJ always requires more powder than lead, so lighter loads work for lead.
With a Nosler JHP 185 I use 4.9 gr of WST and get less than an inch and a half. The 4.6 gr WST is with a LSWCHP (lead semi wad cutter hollow point) and I get 2 1/4" @ 50 yds.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by dronning on Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:18 am

Frame mount, 185gr Zero LSWCHP 3.8 WST for short line 4.2 WST for the long line.  3.8 is just slightly less accurate on the long line.

I use the same loads for 200gr lead.

- Dave

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by DavidR on Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:58 pm

messenger wrote:
DavidR wrote:
messenger wrote:All those loads seem light to me. I love WST. On the long line behind a Zero 185 LSWCHP I use 4.6 gr WST and 4.2 gr on the short line. That is with a slide mounted Aimpoint H1.

Bill
FMJ always requires more powder than lead, so lighter loads work for lead.
With a Nosler JHP 185 I use 4.9 gr of WST and get less than an inch and a half. The 4.6 gr WST is with a LSWCHP (lead semi wad cutter hollow point) and I get 2 1/4" @ 50 yds.

Bill
Might get better groups with lighter charge, 4.6 is kind of strong  for lead unless its a 160 gr bullet.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by messenger on Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:48 pm

I will try the lighter load. Since the Bullseye season for me in NC is coming to a close I will have plenty of time to test. Thanks David.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by rich.tullo on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:49 pm

I do not think it possible to duplicate. 

Under 4.0 gn WST does not burn well and as it gets colder you may find it will not function well. 

That said , WST is a soft shooting powder and 4.0/4.1 will feel close to 3.6 Bullseye.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by john bickar on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:44 am

Wasn't WST the replacement for 452AA? If so, I may have some numbers for you.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by jglenn21 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:38 am

We found 4.0 of WST with a 180 flat base to be a very nice short line load

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by DavidR on Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:42 am

john bickar wrote:Wasn't WST the replacement for 452AA? If so, I may have some numbers for you.
It was the replacement for 452AA however it has been proven it is a different powder than WST.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by rich.tullo on Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:57 pm

I think the start load is listed at 4.4 in my Lee Manual for a 185gn swc. So we are talking about a pretty soft load at 4.0 even thought they are close on the powder tables. 

Under 4.0 you do not get a nice clean burn with WST normally crimped.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by cdrt on Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:06 am

I wanted to follow up on this post and give you a range report on the reloads I tried with WST.
I used a Star Machine Works reloader. For those of you not familiar with the Star, it has set powder slides for individual powders, e.g 3.5 BE, 6.0 Unique, etc.  I have an after-market adjustable slide, so I was able to set it for 4.0 grains of WST for one set of loads and 3.78 grains for the second set.  I could not seem to get it to throw 3.8 grains and finally settled on the 3.78 setting.  The loads were averaged, ten throws each and then divided.

I loaded 185 grain Zero HP lead and 200 grain Bullet Works SWC lead bullets with each powder charge.
Firearms used were a Range Officer with slide mounted Ultradot and 10 pound recoil spring and a Clark Heavy Slide that has had the full-length Bo-Mar rib removed and replaced with a Marvel mount, ultradot and 11 pound recoil spring.  Both these pistols function with my regular 3.5 BE load, except the Clark has never liked 185 grain bullets, they shoot okay, but I get the occasional failure to eject the empty case, so I always use 200 grain bullets with it.

I did the testing on our outdoor range at 25 yards.  The temp was 55 degrees with a wind coming out of the north, northeast, gusting at times to around 15 miles per hour. I used the 25 yard reduced slow fire target (B-16).

The Range Officer functioned with both powder loads and bullets.  Most rounds were either in the X, 10 or 9 ring. I had a few flyers out in the 8 and 7 ring because of the wind. Recoil on both was similar to the 3.5 BE load. I had 15 rounds leftover at the end, so I shot them timed fire at the slow fire target.  All were inside the 8 ring (mostly 9's, 10's and X's) except for two 7's.

The Clark pistol seemed to prefer the 4.0 load.  Accuracy was similar to the Range Officer but it failed to feed several of the Zero bullets.  The nose would catch on the ramp for some reason.  Not sure if it's a magazine problem or whether the ramp needs a little work.  I am going to try some newer mags and see if that solves the problem.  The rounds that did feed correctly with both loads and bullet weights did eject the empty case okay.  Again, recoil was similar to the 3.5 BE load.

I am going to load more of the 4.0 load and shoot them at our indoor league match next week and see how they do. I will shoot the 200 grain bullet for the slow fire stage and the 185 Zero for the timed and rapid stages.

I did notice that the WST leaves a green residue in the cases.  I am used to Bullseye which leaves hardly anything in the way of residue.  It was not excessive and not something that concerns me at all.  I did shoot some BE loads as a comparison and given the outside temperature, etc., they shot exactly the same.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by rich.tullo on Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:18 am

If 3.8 is the minimum load you will like 4.0 and at 4.1 over 50 degrees will burn clean.

Do you want to sell or trade the Bomar rib?

Not feeding Hps 100% is not unusual for older guns. I will advise trying and EGW mag catch it may life it just enough to enable the nose of the bullet to feed. 

I have a RA bullseye rib to trade if the drilling matches the Clark mount ?

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by cdrt on Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:59 am

I'm keeping the Bo-Mar rib.  I tried a couple different mags and the HP's seem to feed okay.  I think it was one particular mag that was causing the problem.

I'm going to load some 4.0's for our league match next Wednesday.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by rich.tullo on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:34 am

4.0 you will be happy but if it gets cold by you I would suggest 4.1 to 4.2 because the powder will get softer owing to the temperature. I have loaded maybe 8 pounds of WST over the years and typically in the Winter it gets softer. 

If it stays above 50 degrees you should be OK. 

RT

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by Cort on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:47 am

Daryl,

?When I got my wad gun from Buddy, he told me to load 4.2 grains of WST with the 200 grain lead semiwadcutters. They shot well enough for me so I never changed the load. When I switched to Bullseye, I used 4.0 grains instead of the old standard of 3.5. That load worked well for me too.

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by cdrt on Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:19 pm

Cort,
A lot of guys use the 4.0 BE load and 4.2 WST load.  When I started shooting Bullseye in the 1970's, the 3.5 BE load was pretty much what a lot of guys used and it's what was in the Star press that I bought used.  Both BE guns are tuned for that load, that's why I was looking for something similar with WST.  The 4.2 WST load was a little uncomfortable with the recoil springs I have in the pistols. My first BE gun was a Series 70 Gold Cup, which I still have.  The older GC's came with a ten pound recoil spring as standard.  Now they come with a 10 and 16 pound spring.  We would shoot 185's with the 3.5 load on the short line and 200's with the 3.5 load for the 50 yard line.
Daryl

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

Post by cdrt on Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:22 pm

rich.tullo wrote:4.0 you will be happy but if it gets cold by you I would suggest 4.1 to 4.2 because the powder will get softer owing to the temperature. I have loaded maybe 8 pounds of WST over the years and typically in the Winter it gets softer. 

If it stays above 50 degrees you should be OK. 

RT

Our league matches and NRA matches are shot indoors from October through April.  We keep the range around 70 degrees during the matches, so the cold should not be a problem.
BTW, we have the only club owned indoor 25 yard range with turning targets in the entire state, that's why we host the state indoor pistol championship every year.  The club website is www.amarillorpc.com

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Re: What WST load equals 3.5 grains of Bullseye for the .45 ACP?

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