New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

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New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by DirComp on Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:11 pm

Due to the High Power matches being moved from Camp Perry to Camp Atterbury, IN, the pistol dates will change. The championship will now be held July 9-14, 2017.

Denny

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by Chris Miceli on Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:24 pm

Dennis have any comments on dates for cmp pistol events?

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by DirComp on Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:26 pm

No. We just made the announcement of High Power moving this afternoon and I have not heard from CMP.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by AllAces on Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:27 pm

Some of us locked in housing based on the previously published dates. Can we get confirmation of the charges from someone in a position of authority,  this week?

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by jmdavis on Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:43 pm

So you move the dates leaving a one week gap between CMP and NRA pistol events and don't even contact the CMP? Then you spring it on the shooters? Seriously? The existing schedule was bad enough. But this makes it worse. If the NRA wants out of Competitive shooting just do it without all of the drama. 

It's going to be interesting splitting the NRA competitions staff between Atterbury for highpower and a Perry for Pistol at the exact same time. Not to mention Long Range and a Midrange dates that conflict with Rifle P100 and NTI. Now you make it impossible for anyone to shoot both rifle and Pistol NRA weeks as well since they are concurrent.

I guess this is a modern version of 1968, but instead of the a Pentagon screwing competitive shooters this time it is NRA. Maybe we can get a 2700 scheduled for Creedmoor and I will give up on NRA nationals for this year.

And what does all of this do to Canton? If the dates work, I will shoot Canton then CMP then go home.


Last edited by jmdavis on Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:27 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by orpheoet on Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:19 pm

Personally I think this is embarrassing from an organisational point of view. A skeptical person might speculate that the NRA is trying to lower attendance in order rationalize a move, or just abandoning the program.
I can't change my vacation again so I will likely not be going to nationals. If this changes CMP pistol dates I probably won't be able to do those either. I feel like I've picked a sport that the governing body doesn't care about.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by Brian Mason on Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:30 pm

I usually stay out of this stuff, but:

CMP is expanding into "fun" matches like we see at the regional games. I think it's safe to assume they'd like to see M&P Pistol and As-Issued at Nationals. Well, something has to give in the schedule. There were bound to be issues.....

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by dstates on Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:55 pm

This quote was posted on Facebook by Creedmoor Sports:
"
Per Mark Johnson, CMP COO:
The CMP will not take the blame for the NRA's indecision. The dates were agreed upon months ago by Ohio National Guard, CMP, and NRA. The NRA is now breaking the deal with the other two partners. This is solely the NRA's decision and fault.
The CMP will be rolling out its own High Power Ranking Program and will implement CMP High Power Matches, Match Rifle events, and New Pistol Matches at Camp Perry in 2018. The tradition of the National Matches at Camp Perry will continue supported by the CMP and the Ohio National Guard with or without the support of the NRA."

Denny, what is going on???

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by dronning on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:09 am

When they announced that CMP had decided to run their own matches at Camp Perry in 2017 that was the first clue.  The dates were agree to but I'd put money on the fact that the cost details weren't worked out completely and when the numbers looked bad the NRA decided to move rifle.

Not sure this is for both pistol and rifle:
The National Matches/NRA Championship have been conducted, in order, at Sea Girt, NJ '03, Fort Riley, Kansas '04, Sea Girt '05, Camp Perry, OH '06-'11, '13, Divisional Matches in 1914  at Sea Girt, Jacksonville, FL, Sparta, WI, Fort Riley , and Portland OR, Jacksonville, FL'15-'16, Camp Perry '18, Caldwell, NJ '19, Camp Perry 1920-31, Eight locations in '31, Fourteen locations in '32, Sixteen locations in '34, 1935-1940-Camp Perry, No HP 1941-1945, Camp Perry 1946-47, no HP in 1948-50, 1951 Camp Matthews, CA, 1952 Fort Benning, 1953-2016 Camp Perry.

as per Hap over at:
http://www.usrifleteams.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33252&p=372212

- Dave

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by Bubba Blaster on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:43 am

"The CMP will be rolling out its own High Power Ranking Program and will implement CMP High Power Matches, Match Rifle events, and New Pistol Matches at Camp Perry in 2018. The tradition of the National Matches at Camp Perry will continue supported by the CMP and the Ohio National Guard with or without the support of the NRA."


And I bet the CMP will do a much better job than the NRA at running the program. I hope  the CMP takes over Bullseye pistol also. The CMP is a much better organization than the NRA. Concentration on the shooting sports not politics.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by Rob Kovach on Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:19 am

This is a trainwreck of epic proportions, Denny.  You owe it to the competitors to give a more detailed explanation.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by john bickar on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:09 am

WTF

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by Jack H on Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:44 am

If this keeps up, I might come to be sorry I bought into Benefactor Life membership.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by Danehogle on Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:32 am

Well.... here is my take on this.
The CMP has been slowly backing away from the NRA and developing more and different matches. They ( the CMP ) are also separating all the Financial aspects of the national Matches. They also have spent a lot of money building permanent facilities at camp perry such as the air pistol air rifle indoor range and now the electronic target on Petrarca range. 
With the admission last night from the CMP, that " new CMP matches for rifle AND pistol in 2018 were on the table. With this and the fact that the CMP changed the calendar, moving the NRA matches to the least desirable dates, The NRA only has two options...
1,     to give in to all the demands from the CMP. Pay max $ for the range lease and be told dates. 
2  to try and salvage the NRA competition division and look for better venues to have the matches. 
My take... which of corse could be wrong, 
The bully ( CMP ) just got punched in the nose. And the first thing that happens after that.... the  bully complains that they just got bullied.

I just wish that Dennis would make a statement about why the NRA has to " take this action" 
Remember folks, there is three sides to this...
 It sounds like the partnership has turned into a dictatorship ...

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by bdutton on Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:07 am

This is a major embarrassment for the NRA.  Seems like all of these decisions (smallbore, pistol week, high power move) are all haphazard.  Just look at the mandate that they made for the smallbore and air rifle sectionals to be competed on electronic scoring systems only without regard to clubs ability to refit their ranges.  They had to make a correction to that pushing that out two years.

I don't have faith in the NRA Competitions Division to continue running quality national level competitions anymore.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by clark2245 on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:32 pm

I sent an email to Denny Willing to try and get some clarification on things and got a quick but brief reply.   I requested a more detailed explanation of things.   Also asked for info on the 9-14 dates since they are a Sunday through Friday, which is different, and how it might impact the Canton regional.   Below is the reply I received.  I'm sure he is very busy right now, and hopefully will provide more details on the reasons later.

"The 9-14 are correct and will not cause a problem for Canton.  There is NO shooting on the 9th, just registration.  Registration will occur again on the morning of the 10th, as will practice sessions.  The afternoon of the 10th is the revolver matches.  The 11th is Preliminary, and 12-14 is 22/CF/45.  I do not know what CMP plans for their matches.
 
Denny"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I just talked to the competitions department at CMP and they only learned about it yesterday when the article came out.   They are having meetings now and hope to have information out later today or tomorrow on any changes to their schedule.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by killswitch on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:45 pm

DirComp wrote:No. We just made the announcement of High Power moving this afternoon and I have not heard from CMP.

Let me get this straight, you decide to move High Power from Perry. Then you move the Pistol with no regard to the CMP pistol match dates? Assuming CMP sticks to its original pistol dates. Do you expect us to come to Perry shoot CMP then go home, come back a week later to shoot NRA? Really?

I'll skip NRA and only shoot CMP if that is the case. Good luck NRA.

 I wonder what Canton will do? Bet they run the regional so we can shoot that and go right into CMP pistol.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by jmdavis on Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:47 pm

Clark, 

Thanks. Canton was scheduled for the June 23-25 because of the other dates. Maybe they will change, maybe not. I would like to shoot Canton. But I cannot shoot Canton and CMP AND shoot NRA. So I will pick Canton and CMP. 

Look at the schedule folks and tell me that this is all good faith decisions by the NRA. I sure wish someone could convince me of that. It wouldn't fix the problem, but it might make me feel better. 

The NRA Long Range matches at Atterbury conflict with NTI, the Midrange matches conflict with P100, the XTC matches run at the same time as pistol. Now I know that few people shoot both pistol and rifle. And I had already decided that I would not be shooting NRA rifle this year in preference to NRA pistol. But with these new dates I can do neither.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by paulb1946 on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:02 pm

End of an era that was inevitable.

The NRA has evolved from a much needed National grass-roots organizer of gun owners to a highly effective political lobby defending our 2nd Amendment Rights of firearms ownership. I am also a Benefactor Member and although I become frustrated from time to time with corporate decisions that I do not agree with, I still support the NRA Staff in their overall mission.

I enjoy the structure and discipline of the Competitive Shooting Sports, participating in Conventional Pistol as well as NRA Across-the-Course and most recently Long-Range Rifle. It makes little difference to me as to who officiates the Competitive shooting events I may attend, as long as a disciplined structure is in place.

When the CMP initiates its' Competitive Sports program, I would hope that there would be a recognizable emphasis on precision shooting such as exists with many of the NRA disciplines. I am just too old to be running, jumping and crawling around barricades.

Whatever the CMP decides to do in 2018, they now have sufficient time to petition for suggestions from the shooting community and do it right. IMHO, the recent process of amending the Service Pistol and Service Rifle Rules only after serious review of competitor feedback proved well for that successful transition.

As for Camp Perry, my opinion has (and always will be) the National Matches (or whatever they are to be titled) should remain at Camp Perry. Tradition has a value all its' own and once abandoned is gone forever. Shooters and National Records come and go but "Camp Perry" is an icon and should remain as an anchor of the Competitive Shooting Sports. As long as, the OHNG and CMP seemed to be fine with continuing their support of the Matches I really see no need to abandoned the facilities they have to offer.

Just think of how great this is! We are witnessing, and may possibly have the opportunity to influence, the next evolution of the Competitive Shooting Sports.

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by DavidR on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:12 pm

Seems like Washington is not the only swamp that needs draining!

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by james r chapman on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:15 pm

+1

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by Danehogle on Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:36 pm

Need new drainage for that...

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by Jack H on Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:24 pm

Cluster comes to mind

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by SNaymola on Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:06 pm

What is the projected affect to shooters in terms of cost if these venues stay split and there are these gaps between matches? Match cost, lodging cost etc?
Stan

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

Post by jmdavis on Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:10 pm

Maybe a better question is what is the cost to the NRA if people change their Wills to take out the NRA?

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Re: New Pistol Dates at Camp Perry

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