.45 bullseye pistol 1.5 guarantee

Jon Eulette wrote:It is very doubtful that a stock RO could repeatedly shoot 1.5" groups at 50 yds with any ammunition.
Jon

james r chapman wrote:IMHO,if you can ransom/sandbag your gun, shoot 90 consecutive rounds into the 10/X ring from 50 yards, it's good enough for 95% of us.

SW-52 wrote:i saw two brands of gun what guarantee 1.5 groups at 50 yards and the ammo they mention is federal match. i have a range officer,super accurate and mega close groups,is possible a range officer make 1.5 groups at 50 yards or is the ammo??? thanks!

Richard Ashmore wrote:

SW-52 wrote:i saw two brands of gun what guarantee 1.5 groups at 50 yards and the ammo they mention is federal match. i have a range officer,super accurate and mega close groups,is possible a range officer make 1.5 groups at 50 yards or is the ammo??? thanks!

  I'll extrapolate from my visit to the Eley Customer Range.  I lot-tested Ely TENEX in three Hammerli pistols.

  For each pistol, I was able to find a lot of ammunition that would shoot groups less than one inch at fifty (50) meters.  The biggest groups were ~two (2) inches.

  Most important for this discussion- there was absolutely no correlation between how a particular lot of ammunition performed in one pistol compared to another, and TENEX has a reputation for being pretty consistent.

  Conclusion:  Each barrel is unique, each lot of ammunition is unique.  No doubt the maker of the pistol found a lot of ammunition that shot well in a particular barrel.  Unless you have access to a bunch of ammunition from that same lot, you may never see that result again.  Do your own testing with your own ammunition to know what to expect.

mspingeld wrote:Sometimes!

Example: A gun with a 3" group will print from 0" to 1-1/2" from point of aim in any direction. If my point of aim when the shot broke was the 10 ring line at 3 o'clock, the point of impact will be somewhere between the exact point of aim and 1-1/2" off in any direction, between an 8 and an X on a 50 yd target. That same shot with a 1-1/2" gun will print from 0" to 3/4" from point of aim, no lower than a 9. If the odds of adding a point to a shot are about 1/3 (assume 1/3 of shots end up further from center, 1/3 closer, 1/3 no change), a better gun could theoretically add 90 points in a 2700 match.

I believe you can buy points. I do agree that time is best spent dry firing and improving one's wobble and fundamentals and don't be discouraged from participating because you can't buy the best gun available. Buy the best you can afford and enjoy. When you're ready, if funds allow, sell that Ruger and upgrade to the Pardini! You'll buy some points and help the next guy/gal join in our fun.

Just my 2 cents.

I called the Eley test center in TX and they said they couldn't test semi auto pistols.....

BE Mike wrote:Bill Blankenship addresses this in "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury". He said that a shooter had a gun that would shoot really tight groups and Bill said he knew that his pistol wouldn't shoot that good. Bill ended up winning the match and decided not to listen to all the hype any more. In precision pistol shooting it is the shooter, not the equipment, as long as, one has a reasonably accurate gun/ammo combination.

willnewton wrote:My Hammerli 215 talks tough from the sandbag, but it only has pipe dreams of beating the "lowly" Ruger Mark II that trounces it on a weekly basis and calls it names.

And that Mark III with a bad attitude.
And an especially unruly X-esse, whose purchase was funded by the sale of the 215 to me.

 Ouch man!

mspingeld wrote:David, I don't mean to sound argumentative. Just conversation.

In theory, and very randomly, a 4" gun could actually improve a shot more than a 1-1/2" gun. In my example above, the shot on the 10 ring at 3 o'clock. The 4" gun could put the shot 2" closer to center. The 1-1/2" gun could, at best, only put it 3/4" closer.

Slartybartfast wrote:

willnewton wrote:My Hammerli 215 talks tough from the sandbag, but it only has pipe dreams of beating the "lowly" Ruger Mark II that trounces it on a weekly basis and calls it names.

And that Mark III with a bad attitude.
And an especially unruly X-esse, whose purchase was funded by the sale of the 215 to me.

 Ouch man!

As someone who is completely new to precision pistol shooting the above is confounding. Some say buy the best you can afford, some say start with a "beginner's" pistol to learn the basics, some are even dismissive of whether a new shooter "deserves" to use a high end pistol without first proving themselves.

But precious few can describe what it is that makes a Ruger Mark beat a Hamerelli or Pardini or what makes one pistol better suited to a person over another. Or how to identify when to blame the gun or the shooter.

Slartybartfast wrote:


But precious few can describe what it is that makes a Ruger Mark beat a Hammerli or Pardini or what makes one pistol better suited to a person over another. Or how to identify when to blame the gun or the shooter.