Highest round count .45 pistols

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Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by robert84010 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:15 pm

just curious what are some of the highest round counts you have seen or heard of with some degree of legitimacy.

I have talked to a military shooter that stated he had 60,000 rounds of wadcutter through his Les Baer before there was a problem, got barrel replaced. Another military shooter I know has 40k through his ball gun, not all hardball. I know my gunsmith put over 7000 rounds  of issue wadcutter through one of his pistols in one season. While talking to a USMC armorer at Perry he stated they had many guns with barrels having over 50k of wad. Surely there are other numbers like this.

I am seeing some bunk information put out that a barrel needs replacing after 6000 rounds of wad. I don't know where people get this stuff.

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by Jack H on Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:54 pm

FRom 70 to 76 I shot at least ten cases of Remington SV through one High Standard.  The gun still works perfectly.  A 106 Trophy.  I say ten cases because that is what was given to me back then.  Yes, given.  Had a lot of hardball given to me too.  The good old days, with connections....

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by robert84010 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:58 pm

Jack, what about your 45's. I"m sure Roddy has some big round counts.

I believe it was Ruby Fox that stated she had over 200k of 22 through her Hammerli 208. I'm guessing that is the minimum to medal in the Olympics.

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by JKR on Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:30 pm

I have 19 pounds of Bullseye through my KC Crawford wad gun. Mostly 3.5 gr. per round. You do the math.

By the way, I bought her previously owned and she's still going strong!

Jim

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by LenV on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:03 pm

I wore a Gold Cup out using it as a carry pistol for 20yrs. Mostly hardball. Probably only about 10k thru it. I went back to shooting Bullseye and Roddy Toyota re-built it. Another 10k in the last 4 years and it is still going strong. No more hardball for that pistol.

Len

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by Caster3845 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:40 pm

I shoot jacketed bullets at the long line and lead at the short line. I had one 45 that I put at least 30,000 jacketed rounds and 60,000 lead through before the barrel just wore out. I still have the barrel and can hardly see the lands and grooves in it.


Last edited by Caster3845 on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Left off a 0 on each number.)

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by scheibenpistole on Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:06 am

If any of you guys knows Dave Salyer (gunsmith and Master shooter in SC) ask him the round count in his Colt 45 wad gun.
I hesitate to mention the number of rounds he told me he put through it. My recollection is that it was a pretty high number!  Also, I don't want to misquote him!  That was back around 2000 or 2001, and he had used it since the 1960s.  
Of course, he rebuilt it himself a few times.  

Jim

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by rich.tullo on Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:15 am

I had +12,000 through a Les Baer I sold and outside of a little looseness on the slide (when dry) and the bushing and lock up are still tight. Skeptical it was still good, I had a local smith ransom rest it with Federal Target ammo and still held under 2 inches at 50 yards. The test target was 1.75 inches.  I believe I read somewhere that lead through a Kart Barrel was good for 85,000 rounds and FMJ would cut that life to under 35,000. If you shoot FMJ KC recommends Barsto barrels. 

If you think about it 3.5 BE over a 185gn bullet  is about 50% less powerful than the max load of hard ball and the 1911 was built to last 3000 rounds hard ball before even one FTE or FTF. If are shooting Action pistol and running max loads of 38 super then sure 10,000 rounds is the max. But what we do is like driving a Porsche 911 - 983 at 35 MPH in a very straight line on the highway, it will run a million miles if driven that way and maybe 100,000 miles if driven at 75mph in city traffic. 

Keep the recoil spring fresh, and use a #10 or #11 at your load (if slide mounted) #12 or #14 if frame mounted and you should be fine. I change recoil spring every 3000-5000 rounds. The bushing is the most important thing as long as its tight and fitted properly everything else should be OK for a long time. That is why a new gun from a top gun Smith costs 2x more than Les Baer.  

I know a guy that has 225,000 rounds through a HS Citation and the gun can still shoot expert scores, the frame cracked after about 185,000 rounds and its welded. My Dad would not sell me his Les Baer Wad Gun build on a hard chrome Gold Cup back in the day when Les was in NY and PA because it had over 120,000 rounds and it needed to be redone in Dad's view. 

Now factory guns can be another story, I had a Kimber that got very loose after about 5000 rounds but the barrel was still good it just needed a refit.

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by Chris Miceli on Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:18 pm

If your scores are going down or your shots are not on call rebarrel.

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by Jon Eulette on Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:26 pm

I think there are factors not being taken into consideration regarding barrel life. Was it properly fit? Has the the frame/slide fit loosened? What loads: hot/mild/soft...jacketed/lead? How was barrel cleaned and how often? So barrel performance is affected by other factors. I've seen rough bores shoot really well. I've seen smooth bores shoot so so. So how do you know it's time to replace? Ransom might not tell real story because of the other factors I mentioned. I will practically never blame a pistol for bad scores. But if you see big change to your averages and shot calling it might be time. If you're not a master, get one to shoot your pistol and give you feedback. Also having a BE smith look at it would help. I've had 45's that I shot over 50k rounds jacketed ammo through them still shoot 1.5" at 50 yds. When I shot a lot I rebarrelled every 2 years because I did it myself. Now I've been shooting same barrel for 10-11 years and its still shooting on call. I only shoot lead and rarely use jhp. I just rebarrelled two of the most worn out barrels I've ever seen: both .38 special! Yeah go figure :p)
So I wouldn't brag about round count unless it was still winning matches.
Jon

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by robert84010 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:54 pm

I hear you Jon. I know the difference between a shot out barrel and needing a retightening. I only brought this up, like I said, was because I saw on another website someone saying that after 6000 rounds of wadcutter a barrel is done. I knew what he is saying is total rubbish but I just wanted to run it by you guys and get the group's experience.
This is also the same guy that stated a person needs a $3000 pistol to shoot for leg points, anything less is not accurate enough and a waste of time, and then you needed a different pistol to shoot in NRA matches. So because of this pistol shooting was far more expensive than rifle shooting. I wasted my time trying to explain the difference between rifle and pistol competitions. My beef with his statements is that he is a Distinguished Rifleman and HM and people respect his opinion,  I know they are getting very bad information from someone that thinks he knows what he is talking about and because of him some people might not attempt to pursue a pistol badge.

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by rich.tullo on Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:09 pm

Jon Eulette wrote:I think there are factors not being taken into consideration regarding barrel life. Was it properly fit? Has the the frame/slide fit loosened? What loads: hot/mild/soft...jacketed/lead? How was barrel cleaned and how often? So barrel performance is affected by other factors. I've seen rough bores shoot really well. I've seen smooth bores shoot so so. So how do you know it's time to replace? Ransom might not tell real story because of the other factors I mentioned. I will practically never blame a pistol for bad scores. But if you see big change to your averages and shot calling it might be time. If you're not a master, get one to shoot your pistol and give you feedback. Also having a BE smith look at it would help. I've had 45's that I shot over 50k rounds jacketed ammo through them still shoot 1.5" at 50 yds. When I shot a lot I rebarrelled every 2 years because I did it myself. Now I've been shooting same barrel for 10-11 years and its still shooting on call. I only shoot lead and rarely use jhp. I just rebarrelled two of the most worn out barrels I've ever seen: both .38 special! Yeah go figure :p)
So I wouldn't brag about round count unless it was still winning matches.
Jon
I did that too gave it Latieff and he shot a 95 with it, I was anticipating recoil at the time and just learning. I would later shoot two 100 10x TF with that gun in my CF league.

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by NuJudge on Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:43 pm

On the HKPro website, there was a thread about a HK USP .45 that Federal Cartridge sent back to HK to be looked at.  There was nothing wrong with the pistol.  It looked all original, except for the springs, and had been shot a lot.  HK was curious how many rounds had been fired through it.  HK called Federal to ask.  Federal told them, "297,000."  
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/160710-chat-hk-armorer-must-read.html

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Re: Highest round count .45 pistols

Post by Slamfire on Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:23 pm

Recently I shot a Bullseye Pistol match at CMP Talladega and AMU shooters were on firing line. I asked them about their 1911’s and took pictures of the M1911 next to me. They were using Caspian Arms M1911’s which the slides/frames dated either from the 1980’s or 1990’s. Gunsmith David Sams told me when he had worked on those pistols, but I forgot the exact date. These guys are putting 5,000 to 7,000 rounds a month (!)  through these M1911’s. What they were shooting that day was 185 JHP from Atlanta Arms. http://atlantaarms.com/products/45-acp-185gr-jhp.html Trigger parts wear out, sears and hammers, I think, about once a year to twice a year, barrels last a year or two. None of the shooters I asked ever remembered a frame or slide cracking, ever. I asked about refitting the slide and frame, and it is my recollection, the shooters said never in their experience. I have seen one cracked frame on a WW1 Colt M1911 used by an IPSC shooter, the frame cracked above the slide release notch. The pistol was functional.
 

 
 
The All Guard Team uses old Army M1911’s built on WW2 carbon steel frames. Based on the serial number, this NO 1,336,XXX this could be a Remington Rand from 1943.  Note the RIA and NM markings. The slide is a Colt.
 
 

 
The All Guard gunsmith indicated the frame/slide fit on these M1911’s would wear and require refitting. He had wear criteria, which I don't remember,  it is my recollection that after the third refitting the slide/frame were worn to much to rebuild.
 
I don’t know what materials Caspian Arms used in their M1911’s but without a doubt they are modern alloy steels. Modern alloy steels, once heat treated, will be hard through and through, while the older plain carbon steels were case hardened for surface wear, but were soft underneath. You would expect therefore, on older M1911’s which had the frames and slides swaged/peened to fit, and then lapped, that the case would wear through down to the soft metal below.

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