1911 wadcutter opinions...

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1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Ghillieman on Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:54 pm

I would like to try a good 1911 wadcutter and have about a $2500 budget. I have been looking at Springfield Custom, Rock River, and Les Baer, and their respective 1911 wadcutters. I would love to be able to afford a $3500 KC or a $4000 Accuracy X, but that is just not possible at this time.

What is everyone's opinions on these pistols?

Am I overlooking other great guns?

Support at commercial row will play a factor in which gun I buy.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Chris Miceli on Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:57 pm

I only saw KC and Larry working on guns at commercial all row. I'm pretty sure all the rest were just selling
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:31 pm

Rock River was working on a variety of guns on vendors' row as well.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Wobbley on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:31 pm

Try looking for a custom someone is selling.  I bet for your budget you could get a decent pistol then send it to KC or someon for a tuneup and still have money left over for ammo.

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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by SW-52 on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:56 pm

budget of 2,500?? buy one range officer,buy kensight sharkskin grips,send the pistol to kc for a new match barrel,bushing,scope mount,a roll trigger kit and install a aimpoint H-1 and add EGW two piece ss guide rod i think this project cost is $1900.00 or bit less,but is a good inversion. the range officer is excellent gun. this post is of other forum,but is the range officer accuracy https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=363111
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Chris Miceli on Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:05 pm

If you want a production gun I like my Springfield ,  but Springfield isn't even taken custom shop orders cause of backlog last time I checked. Larry carter has rock river guns.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by james r chapman on Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:35 pm

Those Rock Rivers looked pretty damn nice....

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=707
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by kc.crawford.7 on Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:47 pm

You're not going to go wrong with a RRA pistol.  As Chris said Larry Carter has them on hand.  A SA RO is a great choice.  After you get the gun shoot it and see if it's as accurate as you're looking for.  If it is the hardest part is done.  If you want to shoot a dot pull the iron sights and I have a slide mount that will hide the low mount cut and give you the option for optics.  The trigger will need work and there are several smiths that can do that for you.  Final idea fine someone who has a backup they no longer shoot or a safe queen looking for a new home.  I believe any of those options will keep you in your budget and get you shooting again.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by DavidR on Sun Dec 04, 2016 9:13 pm

If your not set on brand new i have decided to sell off some of my guns that are safe queens to raise cash. I have two im selling. A original Rock River Arms bullseye wadcutter built in the original shop by Chuck And Mark Larson, it is a slide mount in excellent condition, it has kart barrel and RRA garanteed 2" 50 yard accuracy 2000.00 shipped to a FFL. I also have a Custom shop Springfield that was built for a memberof the springfield pistol team it has kart bbl and custom David Sams super low frame mount with aimpoint H1 4moa micro with fred totts sun shades  it has been cerakoted in satin black and is excellent condition too. 2000.00 shipped to a FFL i can send pics if interested in either.  Contact hwy92gun@bellsouth.net
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by carykiteboarder on Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:49 pm

Since you are looking for ideas, I'll offer a non-traditional one.  You can get a Pardini GT45 for $2449 plus a $150 discount if you pursue it.  (See recent post elsewhere.)  It's not a 1911 so many will consider it heresy.  Remember, it's all about the TRIGGER!  The GT45 is a double-stack gun so if you have small hands you will at least need the "short" trigger.  My hands are very large so it fits me much better than the tiny little 1911 grip.  They are usually in-stock so wait time is minimal.

As KC states, there are back-up/safe-queen guns out there.  In fact, I have a Les Baer that hasn't seen much range time since I acquired the Pardini.  KC did a minor tune-up (bushing & link) on that gun and it's now smoother than it was new.  It has a UD Matchdot II mounted and four Les Baer magazines.  PM me if interested.

Generally, I suggest you listen to what KC says when it comes to pistols.  I'm just a lowly expert who doesn't build 'em.
Glen
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Ghillieman on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:33 pm

carykiteboarder, your recommendation of a Pardini GT45 is a good one! I have been shooting one for the past couple years and it puts up some high scores. What makes me want to try a 1911 bullseye gun is that my EIC gun is a Les Bear Premier II and I am only a few points behind the GT in the NMC's, and that's a dot versus irons.

That Les Baer feels very comfortable to me, and I think a 1911 with a dot may let me pick up a few points.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Tim:H11 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:08 pm

Ghillieman wrote:carykiteboarder, your recommendation of a Pardini GT45 is a good one! I have been shooting one for the past couple years and it puts up some high scores. What makes me want to try a 1911 bullseye gun is that my EIC gun is a Les Bear Premier II and I am only a few points behind the GT in the NMC's, and that's a dot versus irons.

That Les Baer feels very comfortable to me, and I think a 1911 with a dot may let me pick up a few points.


I'm not looking to be arguentive or negative - but the pardini vs the 1911... it's kind of "six in one, half a dozen in the other". What I mean is, is it possible that you've got a REALLY good understanding of sight alignment and trigger control? The 1911 may give you better scores with a dot based on the thought that maybe that grip is more user friendly to you over the pardini. Or it may average out to be the same. 

For the sake of trying one and not risking a ton of money - a good option is to buy a used Springfield Mil Spec (little investment) and have it sent to Jon, Dave, or KC (no preference in the the order they're all good as I'm sure you know) and have them do a trigger and rebarrel including a bushing and link. Remove the Mil Spec sights, add a rail and a dot and try it out. If you don't like it put it up for sale here or use as a backup. But this way is one way to get into a 1911 with a dot and the gun is very competitive because the work was done right and you're not in it for a fortune.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Chris Miceli on Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:22 pm

well you're a master so you know the basics of bullseye =]  Now if you go to the range and shoot your pardini next to your ball gun.. lets say with the same JHP target load. Do you have better SF or TF,RF with one go or the other?

I know for a fact my SF is better with my iron sights. TF,RF is a bit better w/ dot.  This 2650 AMU & Army reserve shooter once said to me " cause you don't see as much movement w/ irons vs the dot flying about"
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by BE Mike on Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:21 pm

Since SA Custom isn't accepting orders, I'd go with the RRA wad gun. The ones I've seen were super tight and accurate. That was several years ago. Assuming that the quality is still the same, I don't thing you can go wrong. The ones I have seen have required no break-in period. The best 10 shot machine rest group I've ever seen was from a RRA wad gun. It was sub 1" group at 50 yards, by a bullseye shooter, using his Nosler reloads and Alliant Bullseye powder. Here is a link to Larrys Guns: http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Rock-River-Arms-Bullseye-wadcutter-pistol__RRAWCRIB.aspx
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Ghillieman on Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:52 pm

Tim:H11 wrote:
Ghillieman wrote:carykiteboarder, your recommendation of a Pardini GT45 is a good one! I have been shooting one for the past couple years and it puts up some high scores. What makes me want to try a 1911 bullseye gun is that my EIC gun is a Les Bear Premier II and I am only a few points behind the GT in the NMC's, and that's a dot versus irons.

That Les Baer feels very comfortable to me, and I think a 1911 with a dot may let me pick up a few points.


I'm not looking to be arguentive or negative - but the pardini vs the 1911... it's kind of "six in one, half a dozen in the other". What I mean is, is it possible that you've got a REALLY good understanding of sight alignment and trigger control? The 1911 may give you better scores with a dot based on the thought that maybe that grip is more user friendly to you over the pardini. Or it may average out to be the same.

Tim, I don't see your statement as being argumentative. In fact, what you said is basically what I was getting at, just worded a little differently. The Les Baer 1911 feels great in my hand, the dot on my Pardini GT is easier to shoot than the sights on my Les Baer, I think a 1911 with a dot could take me to High Master. I wont know until I try it.

by Christopher Miceli on Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:22 pm
well you're a master so you know the basics of bullseye =]  Now if you go to the range and shoot your pardini next to your ball gun.. lets say with the same JHP target load. Do you have better SF or TF,RF with one go or the other?

Christopher, I use the same load for both guns and the Pardini GT with a dot always comes in just a few points higher than the Les Baer with irons. Usually across the board. I really think it's just the ease of aiming with the dot.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Chris Miceli on Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:54 pm

Sounds like you'll improve w/ a 1911wad gun
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Allen Barnett on Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:10 pm

Ghillieman:
If I read your postings correctly you currently have a Pardini GT 45 that you are using for centerfire and 45 and also a Les Baer that you use for EIC matches.  My first question is will/does your Les Baer function shooting wadcutter ammo?  If it does function how well does it shoot wadcutter?  Does it shoot wadcutter as well as your Pardini?  If it does perform as well as your Pardini and since you are already distinguished why not use your Les Baer for the platform to build yourself a wadcutter from.  Since you already have a quality pistol from which to start then I am confident that you could have the gun of your dream built on your Les Baer by KC or Jon or any of a dozen other quality pistolsmiths and stay well under your budget.  But of course there is always the need to add to ones collection.  LOL

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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Tim:H11 on Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:17 pm

Get a second slide with a dot sight mounted on it and a second barrel and all fitted to the les Baer. Then just run one frame and two uppers. That's my plan at least since I'm on a budget. 

I plan to use two frames. A dedicated 22 and a dedicated 45. As well as two slides each. One dot sight, and one irons. The 22 frame has a trigger pull of 3# and the 45 has a trigger pull of 4.25#. I used a Springfield Range Officer, and a Springfield mil spec. The RO frame became the dedicated 22, and the Mil Spec currently wears the RO slide. The Mil Spec slide will soon be turned into a wad gun upper, and I'll pick up a second Nelson Barrel. 

This way I can shoot any EIC match or NRA (wadgun/2700) with limited gear and limited funds. Put a S&W M14 in the box and now I have three guns plus two extra tops and I'm good to go.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by DavidR on Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:37 pm

BE Mike wrote:Since SA Custom isn't accepting orders, I'd go with the RRA wad gun. The ones I've seen were super tight and accurate. That was several years ago. Assuming that the quality is still the same, I don't thing you can go wrong. The ones I have seen have required no break-in period. The best 10 shot machine rest group I've ever seen was from a RRA wad gun. It was sub 1" group at 50 yards, by a bullseye shooter, using his Nosler reloads and Alliant Bullseye powder. Here is a link to Larrys Guns: http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Rock-River-Arms-Bullseye-wadcutter-pistol__RRAWCRIB.aspx
A lot of changes have went down at RRA in the past few years, of the founding brothers Chuck and Mark Larson, Mark  has passed.  The whole 1911 line was scraped for full time building of AR's back a few years ago when the obama gun scare hit, now that AR's are plentiful they just recently  revived the 1911 line but they are built by workers not the two brothers that started the company and hand built every 1911 they sold back in Cleveland, cant say if the  second generation 1911 are any less quality because i have not seen a new RRA 1911 in person yet. I can vouch for the original ones quality and accuracy as i have a Cleveland built model and so does Phillip Hemphill who used his last summer to win the nationals at camp perry.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:10 pm

I'm currently rebuilding an older Baer 45. Barrel was marginally fit and not what I would consider a match fit. Even a high mileage pistol with normal wear will still tell/show you whether it was properly fit or not. I would recommend looking at other pistols beside the Baer because I routinely see poor workmanship. I'm not bashing them, but since you are asking I'm recommending looking elsewhere. I'm basing this purely on my experience with them. I've only seen one in last 20 years that was truly fit good enough that I would leave it alone. You can marginally fit everything else during the build, but not the barrel! We are in a sport that requires the absolute best built pistols. Sorting brass for a marginal pistol is a waste of time. Sorting brass to best fit the properly fit, properly headspaced chamber is worthy. Just saw another Springfield Custom....very well built pistol.
Have fun Dan!
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by rich.tullo on Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:32 am

DavidR wrote:If your not set on brand new i have decided to sell off some of my guns that are safe queens to raise cash. I have two im selling. A original Rock River Arms bullseye wadcutter built in the original shop by Chuck And Mark Larson, it is a slide mount in excellent condition, it has kart barrel and RRA garanteed 2" 50 yard accuracy 2000.00 shipped to a FFL. I also have a Custom shop Springfield that was built for a memberof the springfield pistol team it has kart bbl and custom David Sams super low frame mount with aimpoint H1 4moa micro with fred totts sun shades  it has been cerakoted in satin black and is excellent condition too. 2000.00 shipped to a FFL i can send pics if interested in either.  Contact hwy92gun@bellsouth.net


IMHO without shooting the guns guns based on the parts lists above you could not go wrong. The Springer has a $600 dot and a $500 dot mount so you are getting the actual gun for $900. If I had the money......

I am partial to RRA guns as they are classy but the Springer could be a real shooter.
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Re: 1911 wadcutter opinions...

Post by Chris Miceli on Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:55 am

That sams mount runs more then 500 after refinish. If anyone is interested I have a brand new Sams wadgun w/ frame mount and aimpoint micro I am taking delivery in February(ordered almost 15 months ago) I could let it go for 5500
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