185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

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185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by SW-52 on 12/12/2016, 9:30 am

hi,i see persons who shoot with swc in wadguns,both others with Hollowpoints .45 185 grains or 200's. i want to know the difference between both,one more accurate than other,Price,etc,thanks!
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by rich.tullo on 12/12/2016, 10:08 am

Specifically there are two bullet heads people use 185 Nosler and its Zero clone, virtually the same bullet. The Zeros are a little cheaper. I typically use lead owing to the cost and lower felt recoil. A few people use the Hornady 200gn bullet but 95% of use will use the Nosler. I also believe Atlanta Arms and Zero make factory ammo with these bullets. 

Some use them for an entire CF and 45 acp marches, most use them just on the long line. 

The most common loads are 

4.4 to 4.6 Bulls-eye or VV 310, OAL =1.205 works in my guns. 

I have found 5.0 to 5.2 gn of W231 to be accurate as well. 

Nosler also has data on their website on accurate loads with a variety of powders.
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by BE Mike on 12/12/2016, 11:41 am

SW-52 wrote:hi,i see persons who shoot with swc in wadguns,both others with Hollowpoints .45 185 grains or 200's. i want to know the difference between both,one more accurate than other,Price,etc,thanks!
When I was actively competing and relatively competitive, I used the Nosler 185 gr. JHP at the long line and Star 185 gr. SWCHP, which is a swaged bullet, at the short line. I got the best accuracy at 50 yards with the Nosler vs a lead bullet. I never had trouble with fouling or accuracy when going back and forth during a match and didn't clean my barrel between centerfire and .45 matches. Some of my best slow fire scores were with the Nosler. YMMV.
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by bdas on 12/12/2016, 11:50 am

I think the OP is asking why some people shoot LSWC and some people shoot JHP.

I THINK (based mostly on what I've read on this forum, not my personal experience) that the answer is... 185gr JHP from Nosler or Zero are a little more accurate when reloaded with precision, so those are the ones to use at 50yds where that last little bit of accuracy makes a difference, but the LSWC are accurate enough at 25yds and are significantly cheaper, so people use those at 25yds.

There are a variety of LSWC rounds in popular use, like 200gr (H&G 68 style), 185gr, 185gr hollow-points (mostly from Zero), 185gr button-nose (H&G 130 style), 160gr, 155gr, and more.  

And, of course, people report good results using other bullets from a variety of manufacturers, in a variety of shapes, in a variety of compositions (lead, jacketed, plated, coated); those are just the most common ones.  And there's a WIDE variety of powders (Alliant Bullseye is the most common), powder weights (depends on powder, bullet weight, bullet material, and more), shell casing brands (Starline seems well-liked), shell casing ages (new or once-fired for 50yds; reload 'em til they split for 25yds or closer), primer brands, seating depths/OALs/shoulder measurements (depends on bullet), and crimps (around .469 +/- .001 for lead, and less for jacketed) that people use.

It's a bit intimidating for a newcomer trying to juggle training/fundamentals, equipment, and ammo/reloading.  Hence the questions for help in sorting it all out.  I certainly don't have all the answers, but, as a relative newbie myself, I can appreciate the confusion.  I hope this attempt at an overview helps.

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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by Jon Eulette on 12/12/2016, 2:20 pm

If you cannot call majority of your SF shots, then do not waste your money on jacketed bullets. Lead bullets are good enough to shoot high master scores! Quality reloads will shoot sub 1.5" groups at 50 yds with either lswc or jacketed bullets. Lead has softer recoil than jacketed bullets! Also 200 gr lswc have tendency to shoot 50 yds better than 185 lswc. Varies by pistol but in my experience is most forgiving load wise.
Jon
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by Wobbley on 12/12/2016, 2:41 pm

^^+1
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by Chris Miceli on 12/13/2016, 5:11 am

Jon Eulette wrote:If you cannot call majority of your SF shots, then do not waste your money on jacketed bullets. Lead bullets are good enough to shoot high master scores! Quality reloads will shoot sub 1.5" groups at 50 yds with either lswc or jacketed bullets. Lead has softer recoil than jacketed bullets! Also 200 gr lswc have tendency to shoot 50 yds better than 185 lswc. Varies by pistol but in my experience is most forgiving load wise.
Jon
psshhh ^^  This guy with his knowledge.
Idea
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by carykiteboarder on 12/13/2016, 10:25 am

I thought certain barrels had feed ramps optimized for one bullet type or another.  Is that not true?  In particular, isn't a "ball gun" tweaked for smooth feeding of FMJ and a "wad gun" tweaked for LSWC?
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by LenV on 12/13/2016, 11:21 am

carykiteboarder wrote:I thought certain barrels had feed ramps optimized for one bullet type or another.  Is that not true?  In particular, isn't a "ball gun" tweaked for smooth feeding of FMJ and a "wad gun" tweaked for LSWC?
The only tweeking that is done is with the magazine. I have never had a 1911 that wouldn't handle both well. I am not saying that some have not been worked on. I had to tweek a barrel to get it to feed 185gr FMJWC but that had nothing to do with the feed ramp. Personal opinion YMMV

Len
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

Post by rich.tullo on 12/13/2016, 12:11 pm

carykiteboarder wrote:I thought certain barrels had feed ramps optimized for one bullet type or another.  Is that not true?  In particular, isn't a "ball gun" tweaked for smooth feeding of FMJ and a "wad gun" tweaked for LSWC?


Button Nose SWC may require some changes to the feed ramp but HG68's seem 100% in everything. I had a Citadel that ran BN SWC's and loved them and I had Springer that needed work to feed them. My KC gun loves them and my Madore hates them. 

Good news is there are many casters that make a HG68 style bullet, a jacketed HG 68 is a waste of money IMHO. The Magnus 801 is a good button nose bullet and perhaps the only good one, also the Penn TC is not a bad bullet and will really run in everything if your gun does not feed those it need to go back to the factory. I just loaded up some Summers bullets, them are dirt cheap and them seem to be OK for practice. I like the quality from CJN casting and they are right up there with Zero for a cast bullet. stay away from plated bullets, I just loaded up some I got cheap and 8/10 seem to be ok problem is the other 2 tend to go where ever they like. 

A really good smith will optimize the barrel for the loads you are using hence one reason for the difference between the service pistol and wad-cutter but factory guns are generally not optimized. the old rules had broader distinctions. 

Many smiths will use a Stainless Barrel for Service pistol because jacketed ball ammo can wear out the barrel faster than lead. 

I have had my best results with JHP, zero swagged bullets either 200gn SWC or the 185 hpswc if you buy in bulk the price is not horrible. My next bullet order will be for 4000 Zeros LHPSWCs.
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Re: 185 swc vs 185 or 200 grains HP

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