CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

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CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by dronning on 1/5/2017, 12:32 pm

CMP changes Service Pistol rules again

"U. S. Government or Colt M1911 Service Pistols or commercial versions of the same type (M1911). These pistols may be chambered for any cartridge with a bore diameter not less than 9mm and not greater than .45” and have a barrel length not greater than 5.100”."


- Dave
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by Chris Miceli on 1/5/2017, 12:34 pm

and 38 special(if the berrys 148 are worth shooting)? and 40 s&w ?


Last edited by Chris Miceli on 1/5/2017, 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by LenV on 1/5/2017, 12:38 pm

YIPPEEEE. Wish I had SA stock.

Len
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by dronning on 1/5/2017, 12:57 pm

Service Pistol competitors may use any safe ammunition that is loaded with metal-jacketed or metal-plated bullets. Non-jacketed, wad-cutter or lead bullets may not be used.

Was the metal plated bullets added?

-Dave
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by Chris Miceli on 1/5/2017, 1:04 pm

dronning wrote:Service Pistol competitors may use any safe ammunition that is loaded with metal-jacketed or metal-plated bullets. Non-jacketed, wad-cutter or lead bullets may not be used.

Was the metal plated bullets added?

-Dave
looks like no 38 special
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by mpolans on 1/5/2017, 1:55 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:
dronning wrote:Service Pistol competitors may use any safe ammunition that is loaded with metal-jacketed or metal-plated bullets. Non-jacketed, wad-cutter or lead bullets may not be used.

Was the metal plated bullets added?

-Dave
looks like no 38 special
I'm pretty sure someone is making some plated .38 wadcutter rounds. 

I'm just thrilled that I can use my 9mm STI Spartan and I don't have to go out and buy another gun.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by jglenn21 on 1/5/2017, 2:00 pm

Berry's makes a 38 HBWC plated bullet...but ...will it shoot well enough?

I know what I'll be doing with my extra super frame now
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by LenV on 1/5/2017, 2:40 pm

Sorry, No Wad cutters. Plated or not. SWC okay if plated.

Len (until next year when they change again)

Your going to have to get one of these Chris. Looking in my crystal ball at the future of EIC pistols.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by mpolans on 1/5/2017, 2:52 pm

I suppose if you're determined to use a model 52 or 1911 chambered in 38 special, you could probably get some .38 short colt brass and use jacketed/plated SWC or RN bullets and seat them out so the OAL is similar to a .38 special with WCs. Assuming the gun headspaces off the rim, it might work fairly well.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by james r chapman on 1/5/2017, 3:41 pm

So, EIC becomes basically precision pistol,  non-optics, classification.

The link to the past is further diminished.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by jglenn21 on 1/5/2017, 4:53 pm

unfortunately I agree Jim
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by dronning on 1/5/2017, 4:58 pm

jglenn21 wrote:unfortunately I agree Jim
Agreed, Looking at the scores they have't gone up much but it appears more people are shooting better scores.  I had quit shooting EIC matches no points yet, but as my skills improve I am contemplating starting again and using 230gr ball ammo, just to say I did it.

- Dave
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by james r chapman on 1/5/2017, 5:24 pm

Im' liking that idea.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by JIMPGOV on 1/6/2017, 7:18 am

WELL NOW. NOW I HAVE A USE FOR A 5" 9MM 1911 FROM PPC. NRA CHANGED THE PPC RULES A FEW YEARS BACK WHICH MADE THIS GUN NOT NEEDED. NOW I HAVE A USE FOR IT. IT'S A ROCK RIVER ARMS AND BOY DOES IT SHOOT GREAT AT 50YDS. JP

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by scheibenpistole on 1/7/2017, 3:31 am

"So, EIC becomes basically precision pistol,  non-optics, classification.


The link to the past is further diminished."


I can see Jim's point concerning the link to the past.  On the other hand, the 1911 .45 hasn't been the US service pistol for about 30 years now.  Not that I'm saying the M9 was an improvement.  
At least we're free to continue to use our 45 hardball guns if we choose.
What's the minimum trigger weight?

For a GREAT "link to the past" type pistol match, until the 1990s they used to run a "Classic Military Pistol" match in the UK.  The course of fire was the International Centerfire match, (fired at 25 meters).  Any service/military pistol issued up to Armistice Day (Nov 11, 1918...WWI) could be used.  So, a 1911 was fine, but not a 1911A1! Very Happy   Tuning and fitting was fine.  Sights must be as issued.  I forget the minimum trigger weight.  
Lots of Lugers, various 455s, 38 M&P revolvers.... 
We used to occasionally run this type of match informally at a club I shot at when I lived in Canada.  Lots of fun and very challenging.  With the surplus market being what it was, you could spend as much or as little as you liked and still be competitive.  I used a fantastic shooting S&W 455 2nd model Hand Ejector.

For my 2 cents worth, if I had my way, I'd have CMP do this type of service pistol match based on these old classics sooner than opening it up to all the plastic pistols.  Based on the great turnout CMP has gotten for rifle with Classic Military Bolt Action Matches and even the more specialized classic sniper category, I think they'd accomplish more in regard to recruiting new participants.

My apologies for drifting off-topic a bit.

Best Regards,
Jim
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by mpolans on 1/7/2017, 2:02 pm

Actually, some Marines (MARSOC) still uses 1911s...they're even a little tricked out. As for the change in calibers, haven't the 1911s in .45acp been losing out to the Beretta M9s in 9mm in EIC matches lately? Maybe caliber parity was a way to get the 1911 back in the game.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by Chris Miceli on 1/7/2017, 2:06 pm

mpolans wrote:Actually, some Marines (MARSOC) still uses 1911s...they're even a little tricked out. As for the change in calibers, haven't the 1911s in .45acp been losing out to the Beretta M9s in 9mm in EIC matches lately? Maybe caliber parity was a way to get the 1911 back in the game.
Look who won the NTI and NTT
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by mpolans on 1/7/2017, 2:26 pm

PFC Huddock won NTI, but I didn't see anything on what he was shooting when he did it.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by Chris Miceli on 1/7/2017, 3:21 pm

mpolans wrote:PFC Huddock won NTI, but I didn't see anything on what he was shooting when he did it.
Gonna bet beretta, Adam took second? With his XDM 9mm
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by james r chapman on 1/7/2017, 3:56 pm

I thought Adam was 8th with the xdm
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by Wes Lorenz on 1/7/2017, 8:21 pm

My .02,Those who dryfire/practice get points no matter the caliber and the scores will go up...right?
Our sport is stagnant to dying with very few young shooters able to afford a custom pistol.
Thank You CMP:
As a match director I am very happy to see these proactive changes, now I can tell the club shooters "that such&such pistol you have is legal, please come and shoot the match & EIC."
Wes

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by L Valdez on 1/7/2017, 9:11 pm

I saw several people getting Leg points with a score of 220. Now they have to shoot a 250 to keep the leg point, but the pool of Leg donors will increase with Leg point donors bringing any pistol, caliber combination to increase the number of Leg points awarded.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by SmokinNJokin on 1/8/2017, 9:28 pm

I frankly think anything that encourages attendance is a plus. Trying to get the young kids in uniform that work for me to come shoot hardball matches 2-3 years ago was damn near impossible once I explained what their options were for a legal firearm... I have loaned out ball guns many times and I know nearly every competitor at an old leg match was willing to do the same, but the fact of the matter is no millennial has the patience to come stand around at a ball match, held a undisclosed time after a 2700 match, to borrow some gruff old guys gun that he is unfamiliar with.

Looking at yearly attendance for P100 and NTI compared to years past, makes me very sad. I agree that the 'link to the past' has diminished, but if we truly want this to be 'service pistol' then they are headed in the right direction. I work with/for/around T1 operators on a very frequent basis and I rarely see 1911's or Beretta's. Glocks are pretty much the standard.

So yeah, 9mm 1911 is legal now. Gives me an excuse to get another bullseye gun, which is a plus. And I know that the people who practice with irons, and dry fire, and have the discipline and patience to pursue leg points are going to win the matches still - not the ones with the best equipment. We all know someone who has a very expensive hardball gun they pull out only for CMP matches and shoot very poorly - and thats OK, too.

I think the CMP is on the right track, the real question is will it make a difference? My young soldiers, and the majority of good shooters in the SOF community I have spoken to, are much more interested in action shooting. As a PMI and coach, I really try to sway guys towards bullseye because the skills are universal, foundational and transfer to all types of shooting. Bullseye has made me better at running and gunning with 50lbs of kit on, and it has even helped me be more patient when my toddler is throwing a temper tantrum. I will keep trying to make new converts, but I think the sport is inevitably going to die unless there is a big generational change.

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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by Slartybartfast on 1/9/2017, 9:14 am

SmokinNJokin wrote:I agree that the 'link to the past' has diminished, but if we truly want this to be 'service pistol' then they are headed in the right direction.

That's what I thought as well as soon as I saw the "history" comment.

Links to the past belong in "historical" class competition. If the tools from the past are still competitive, people who own them can continue to use them, and those that don't can decide which they want to invest in (new or old).
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

Post by Chris Miceli on 1/9/2017, 9:28 am

I'm going to stick with the 45...cause i'm too lazy to reload another caliber... heck i just got me a XDM 9mm and i'm gonna shoot Atlanta Arms.  I plan to beat the pants off of many with either pistol.
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Re: CMP Service Pistol now 9MM & 38 Super OK

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