Shooting Box Design

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Shooting Box Design

Post by mpolans on Thu 12 Jan - 14:46

It seems just about every shooting box I've seen, whether it's a Strong Case, Gun Ho, Pachmayr, etc, has all the guns on held vertically on a tray that slides out. Why is this?

It seems to me that width on most shooting benches is at a greater premium than height...in fact, it seems most cases are designed to have the door swing up vertically pretty high so a spotting scope attached to the door is positioned high enough.

Why aren't boxes designed so that guns lay horizontally on individual shelves (maybe individual drawers) instead? Sized correctly, this would seem to allow fitting three guns with scopes and orthopedic grips without making the box too wide. It would also seem if the guns are on individual shelves/drawers, there would be no concern about them working loose or banging into each other.

Is there some rule or reason for the vertical layout?

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Chris Miceli on Thu 12 Jan - 14:53


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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by mpolans on Thu 12 Jan - 15:02


Okay, like that, but big enough to actually fit three guns with scopes and larger grips. Why isn't it the norm?

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Tim:H11 on Thu 12 Jan - 15:26

I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say that a long time ago before the major use of dot sights most only had an automatic 22 and a couple revolvers or maybe a couple autos and one revolver. The big difference then and now is dot sights. And so back then you could put the guns in closer, target grips might not have been as extreme, and space in the box was easier to come by. Less gizmos and gadgets. The boxes we use today are just improvements on the same idea. 

Why not your idea? I don't know. Seems visible though. However a bigger box can be a burden to tote.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by SteveT on Thu 12 Jan - 17:20

No rule I've ever seen defines gun position in the box, except some ranges, rightly so in my opinion, object to guns pointing backwards in the box as they will then sweep half the range when they are removed and turned around.

I wouldn't want a flat drawer. If it ever rains, water would collect in the drawer rather than running off the gun.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by AllAces on Thu 12 Jan - 17:32

I had one of those large aluminum cases that would fit four guns pointed down. It would hold everything you needed to shoot two 2700 matches. Only problem, you needed a cart to haul it around at the range. Sold it to a younger shooter.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Russ OR on Thu 12 Jan - 18:53

For multi-gun matches:
How about a range box that holds everything (including the pre-mounted spotter) except the guns. - Guns carried in separate padded case. -

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by rreid on Thu 12 Jan - 19:20

I've seen these used as a bullseye gun box:

https://www.amazon.com/Boyt-Sports-Trayed-Range-Medium/dp/B000WZCUD8/ref=sr_1_6?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1484270087&sr=1-6&keywords=Adg

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Blsi2600 on Thu 12 Jan - 22:09

Nice box.  When it is dry.  In the rain at Canton and Perry, it can be a fancy bucket.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Tim:H11 on Thu 12 Jan - 22:09

Blsi2600 wrote:Nice box.  When it is dry.  In the rain at Canton and Perry, it can be a fancy bucket.
 
lol!

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Slartybartfast on Fri 13 Jan - 12:30

SteveT wrote:No rule I've ever seen defines gun position in the box, except some ranges, rightly so in my opinion, object to guns pointing backwards in the box as they will then sweep half the range when they are removed and turned around.

I wouldn't want a flat drawer. If it ever rains, water would collect in the drawer rather than running off the gun.

I've made a similar comment on other pistol box threads.
IMO If the pistol needs to be handled, it needs to be pointing downrange.

Guess some contortion can make sure the backwards pistols point down and are turned as being removed from the box. I'd like to know what people with these boxes do.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by mpolans on Fri 13 Jan - 12:52

Blsi2600 wrote:Nice box.  When it is dry.  In the rain at Canton and Perry, it can be a fancy bucket.
Aren't the firing points at Perry and Canton covered?  Every place I've seen a bullseye match had covered firing points. Under a covered firing point, is rain really that much of a consideration?

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Fri 13 Jan - 13:05

At Perry you shoot out in the open.  It will be hot, cold,sunny, cloudy,rainy, and the winds will entertain all points of the compass.
This will happen during timed fire.  Smile

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by john bickar on Fri 13 Jan - 14:40

STEVE SAMELAK wrote:At Perry you shoot out in the open.  It will be hot, cold,sunny, cloudy,rainy, and the winds will entertain all points of the compass.
This will happen during timed fire.  Smile

Then what happens during the second string of timed fire?

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Dr.Don on Fri 13 Jan - 15:05

I've shot at Quantico, under a cover, and still got an inch of water in the bottom of my gunbox due to the blowing rain.  Outdoors weather is always a consideration.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Fri 13 Jan - 15:19

john bickar wrote:
STEVE SAMELAK wrote:At Perry you shoot out in the open.  It will be hot, cold,sunny, cloudy,rainy, and the winds will entertain all points of the compass.
This will happen during timed fire.  Smile

Then what happens during the second string of timed fire?

Sometimes you learn about scoring cross fires...thankfully the guy who got me was shooting 9mm & I was shooting 45s  What a Face

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by CR10X on Fri 13 Jan - 15:48

deleted

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Jack H on Fri 13 Jan - 22:06

Slartybartfast wrote:
SteveT wrote:No rule I've ever seen defines gun position in the box, except some ranges, rightly so in my opinion, object to guns pointing backwards in the box as they will then sweep half the range when they are removed and turned around.

I wouldn't want a flat drawer. If it ever rains, water would collect in the drawer rather than running off the gun.

I've made a similar comment on other pistol box threads.
IMO If the pistol needs to be handled, it needs to be pointing downrange.

Guess some contortion can make sure the backwards pistols point down and are turned as being removed from the box. I'd like to know what people with these boxes do.


CMP rule covers most of the boxed muzzle direction concerns.  Kind of hard to police something closed in a box though
5.6.1 Safety Flags
Safety Flags (Empty Chamber Indicators - ECIs) must be placed in all rifles and pistols when they are brought onto a range. Safety flags must remain in rifles or pistols at all times, except during preparation and firing periods. A rifle or pistol being carried on a range must have a safety flag inserted whether it is carried in an uncased condition or in a gun case or storage container. Safety flags must be fluorescent orange, yellow or a similar bright color and must have a probe that inserts into the gun chamber and a visible flag that projects out from the open gun action.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by CR10X on Sat 14 Jan - 7:15

You know, I deleted this once in this thread.  Here it is again (without some of the words I used in the previous post).  

You can only handle guns when the range is clear, the command to handle guns has been given AND the gun is handled safely and pointed in a safe direction.  So you should not move or even touch a gun in the box if it is not pointed downrange (or other safe direction as dictated by that specific range). Even if the range is clear, if there is a gun in the box facing any way but downrange (or designated safe direction), even with an EIC installed, it should not be handled. That's how we keep each other safe.
 
So, For boxes with guns pointed both ways inside the box.

Put the box on the bench with the gun you want to use pointed down range.  When the range is clear and you can handle your guns, take the gun you want to use out of the box and put it on the bench. If you put the box on the bench with the gun you want to use facing the wrong way, then move the box around. 

After putting the gun on the bench, if the box is not facing the way you want it, then move the box around.  You can move your box anytime, hot or cold range.  The box ain't bolted to the bench. 

I believe you will find the reverse process will work when you put the gun up.  

After firing is complete, clear the gun as dictated by the rules for that competition or specific range commands. Put the gun on the bench.  Use the reverse process of moving the box to store the gun.  Remember, the box is movable. 

No one ever sweeps the range, the guns are handled properly, safely boxed and ready for transport.  

(joy2shoot identified a correction needed above changing "gun" for "box" in the 4th paragraph and this note prompted by our conversation:) 

To me, guns inside the box are somewhat like Schrodinger's cat in that they are in an assumed "safe" universe as long as we do not intrude into the box and touch the cat.  Otherwise, we'd never be able to transport or move our gun boxes. Every gun in a case, in our cars, behind the line, etc. are facing many different ways. It's our job to make sure the gun is in an unloaded and safe condition when it goes in the box.  So, move the box to the proper orientation, then remove the gun if that is what is required. Otherwise, don't fiddle with the guns in the box. 

CR


Last edited by CR10X on Sun 15 Jan - 10:45; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : I can't type and think at the same time.....And when I try to think, nothin' happens.)

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by mpolans on Sat 14 Jan - 12:34

Surely rain fear of a torrential downpour can't be the overriding consideration for box design. Other than the rain factor, anyone see any downsides or any other factors to consider?

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Wes Lorenz on Sat 14 Jan - 22:24

My take on a pistol box.


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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by LenV on Sun 15 Jan - 7:46

My take on shooting in the rain. I don't do it. I will walk out into the rain to score and repair. I won't set up with about X-amount worth of pistols to be rained on. I also won't take a swing with my golf club if the ball is laying on a rock. Back to Horizontal trays. I'm afraid it just wouldn't work with three pistols with custom grips. In a conventional box you can sorta move things around and share space to get all the pistols in. If all three drawers had to have enough space then the box would have to be much taller. You would still need space for ammo, muffs, stapler etc etc. Just my .02 worth.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by STEVE SAMELAK on Sun 15 Jan - 8:07

Wes Lorenz wrote:My take on a pistol box.


I think you should have used a sharper drill bit when you put the lightening holes in the scope mount   jocolor

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by Slartybartfast on Mon 16 Jan - 8:44

CR10X wrote:You know, I deleted this once in this thread.  Here it is again (without some of the words I used in the previous post).  

You can only handle guns when the range is clear, the command to handle guns has been given AND the gun is handled safely and pointed in a safe direction.  So you should not move or even touch a gun in the box if it is not pointed downrange (or other safe direction as dictated by that specific range). Even if the range is clear, if there is a gun in the box facing any way but downrange (or designated safe direction), even with an EIC installed, it should not be handled. That's how we keep each other safe.

...

CR

I agree CR10X.

Currently, I have only one pistol. But when it's in its box, I always know which way it's pointing.

I put it in the box pointing downrange.
And when I open the box up the pistol is pointing downrange.

If I ever go down south and cross the border to compete in a CMP event, I guess I'll need to get an ECI. Although a really basic one did come with the pistol when I bought it.

I've been using plastic wall anchors for dry firing my .22 pistol and to store it with the hammer released. If I glue a flag to those, might qualify as an acceptable ECI.

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Re: Shooting Box Design

Post by joy2shoot on Mon 16 Jan - 10:49

Slartybartfast wrote:
If I ever go down south and cross the border to compete in a CMP event, I guess I'll need to get an ECI. Although a really basic one did come with the pistol when I bought it.
In the sanctioned bullseye matches I compete in, the sponsoring ranges require ECIs.  And if it did not, I would encourage people to use them.  To me, it is a cheap way to ensure the gun is unloaded. 

Gun stores sell them at too high a price.  I make mine out of Nylon Cable Ties.  You can buy these ties at hardware and electronic stores.  Get ones that are longer than your barrel and then put the pointed end through the catch to make a loop large enough for you to grap.  In this way you can easily insert and remove the tie from the chamber.

p.s. When I mean as long as barrel, I mean for handgun, not rifle of course.  In this way the ECI can also be used to check for a squib load.
Attachments
ECI.jpg You don't have permission to download attachments.(218 Kb) Downloaded 3 times


Last edited by joy2shoot on Mon 16 Jan - 11:02; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added photo)

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