Need help with extractor tuning.

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Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by zanemoseley on 1/14/2017, 2:24 pm

At the end of the last season I broke the extractor on my my Les Baer wad gun. I bought a replacement Les Baer extractor as well as the Weigland extractor bending gauge.

On the stock gauge setting it works pretty well but about 1-2 out of 100 I have a malfunction. Usually what happens is that it chambers a round but won't go into battery, the slide isn't allowed to go all the way forward, kind of like the extractor is behind the round instead of engaging it. Does this mean I have too much extractor tension?

I see Weigland also sells some way overpriced brass shims to use with a trigger pull gauge to test the tension, I guess if I have to I can buy it.

Any suggestions. I'm shooting an 1800 tomorrow and would love no alabais, with the old extractor this pistol was ultra reliable.

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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by jglenn21 on 1/14/2017, 7:26 pm

I use the entire Weigand set and it ends up being very consistent..I normally set the 45 at 24-25 Oz.

you can replace the little brass gauges with a New 45 case and then solder a hook onto the rim.. use that to pull it out with the trigger pull gauge


yes your extractor may be a bit tight or the hook profile may need a bit of work..

Wilson has a good article on the profile.

polishing the hook portion does help
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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by zanemoseley on 1/14/2017, 8:38 pm

Good idea on the DIY option, I made one with some scrap wire and a piece of brass. Also another excuse to use my brand new Hakko digital soldering iron. Soldering to the brass was tough but it holds for such light weight.

As my extractor was set the trigger gauge read right at 32 ounces, I adjusted the bending gauge and now its at 24 ounces. Guess I'll find out at the match tomorrow if I fixed it. I could tell the case was easier to slide under the extractor after adjusting it.


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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by jglenn21 on 1/14/2017, 9:29 pm

Nice
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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by CR10X on 1/15/2017, 10:20 am

You probably know this, but in case some think an extractor change is just setting the tension....

The extractor should be fit for overall length as well (extractor tip not touching forward edge of extractor groove in case).  In general, I think most extractors are probably a little long on the front and not tight enough in the firing pin slot. But the length should always be checked.  (And with a variety of cases since the extractor groove geometry does vary among the manufacturers.) 

An almost too long extractor can show up with issues like you described, depending on the cartridge OAL / headspace length. In addition, if the extractor is hitting the forward edge of the cartridge extraction groove, the new extractor can crack or break at the tip due to tip battering anyway.  

I see a number of those on the line each year. Shooter replaces broken extractor and 2 months to a year later the new one breaks at the tip too.  

Generally on the the line, most extractor issues I see are related to shooters not cleaning the extractor and extractor tunnel often enough.  

CR

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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by jglenn21 on 1/15/2017, 10:29 am

excellent points.. there is a fair amount to check on the extractor..

EGW extractors are the shortest out of the box that I've used..

Caspian extractors are for the $$ very good.

Never used an extractor that didn't need some work if nothing more than polishing.
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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by 10sandxs on 1/15/2017, 12:34 pm

Agree with jglen21, I get a lot of guys (especially action pistol guys) bring thier gun with new extractors that don't work. My favorite are the crazy expensive Aftec double coil spring models that are suppose to be drop in, but seldom are.

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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by Ed Hall on 1/15/2017, 12:48 pm

...which brings up another point:

If you have a spare extractor in your gunbox in case of failure during a match, be sure it is already fully tuned.

This failure bit me hard a long time ago in a country far away...

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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by james r chapman on 1/15/2017, 4:50 pm

Ed Hall wrote:...which brings up another point:

If you have a spare extractor in your gunbox in case of failure during a match, be sure it is already fully tuned.

This failure bit me hard a long time ago in a country far away...
But, you lived to fight another day! santa
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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by Ed Hall on 1/15/2017, 8:01 pm

james r chapman wrote:
Ed Hall wrote:...which brings up another point:

If you have a spare extractor in your gunbox in case of failure during a match, be sure it is already fully tuned.

This failure bit me hard a long time ago in a country far away...
But, you lived to fight another day! santa
This is true!  Although the country was Germany, it was not WWII, and only a "friendly competition."  But, it was a 1911 and I was probably going to win...

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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by zanemoseley on 1/16/2017, 7:08 am

Ok, time for an update. With the new slightly lowered extractor tension I shot an indoor 1800 yesterday. On the first 6 magazines of slow fire I had 2 failures to go into battery, both were the last round of the magazine, that seems to be when it messes up for some reason. Both times it stops the slide about 1/4" from closing, the second failure I tried to get to close the slide on it again with no luck, you can see in the picture it put a little blemish on the back edge of the case so I assume the extractor was totally behind the case. I had to knock the round out of the chamber but once loaded into a magazine again it fired fine. 

So somehow it seems that possibly magazine spring pressure is causing the last round not to seat properly. I've got several magazines and never had any magazine issues before the extractor change. My buddy had a plastic dummy round so I tried putting that in first and putting the 5 live rounds on top of that so that I would never have a live round be the last round of the magazine. This worked, I finished the centerfire round (12 more magazines) with no failures. 

So does this narrow down the possibilities. I don't care to do work to the extractor but I'd like not just start hacking away at it aimlessly. 




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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by jglenn21 on 1/16/2017, 8:47 am

could be a  combination of a extractor just a bit tight and magazine springs that have weakened. also the type of magazine follower can contribute to last round failures.. the last round may be moving forward in the magazine and when trying to feed it misses the extractor hook.

what mags are you using..
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Re: Need help with extractor tuning.

Post by zanemoseley on 1/16/2017, 8:56 pm

Not sure on the magazine brand as I inherited them when I bought the pistol. They all have rounded convex followers.

I may buy some new springs to give them some new life.

Also I took some suggestions and tweaked the extractor, I found some old Wilson Combat videos on how to tweak extractors, picked up some needle files and gave it a go.

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