Range of acceptable headspace

Just ordered a new Kart Xact fit (formerly EZ fit) 9mm barrel to convert my Les Baer 38 super to 9mm. The rounds fit in the barrel like this, from three different brands of 9mm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't these rounds fit flush, or just slightly recessed, of this part of the barrel? Won't this affect lockup? Thinking of sending it back and ordering another one. 

Supposed to look like this.

LenV wrote:Supposed to look like this.

That's what I thought. I wonder if I should spend another $80 and get a chamber reamer or if I should return it and hope that the next one they send has a properly reamed chamber?

If you ordered a drop-in barrel, then it appears that you got the gunsmith-fit barrel. What you are looking at is (probably) not (just) headspace, and you have a barrel that requires gunsmith fitting, to include the hood, top lugs, bottom lugs and leade/chamber. 

The Kart barrel you have is "short."  The variation that you are seeing between different loaded ammo is mostly the interference between the bullet and the leade, or lack thereof in the short chamber. 

To check headspace, use a go-gage, or at a minimum, a sized but empty case....this will at least show you a relative headspace, taking into account fitting the hood to the slide.

In short (pun intended), you likely need to have the barrel properly fit and reamed.  If you do not have a lathe and experience doing this, it is best economically to send it to someone who does.....or risk a chattered chamber and questionable headspace.

-Ron

Ez-fits come with extended barrel hood dimensions(length and width) so you can fit them to your pistol. They sell a kit to fit the barrel.. Then they are due to be close on headspace at that point.  On the Ez-fit you also have to adjust the upper lugs but not the lower lugs. all in the instructions sheet that came with the barrel hopefully

if you have not fit the hood yet, then no doubt the chamber is short and would need to be reamed once fit. I'll assume that is a Jacked bullet round and not lead.

kart doesn't make a true drop in fit..

It fits properly with an empty casing. I believe it is the EZ fit barrel and bushing, the tool kit to fit it has still not been delivered. Is it good to go then?

If the empty case lands in the correct spot, sharpie up a factory round.  Push it in and spin it in the chamber, it appears the bullet is stopping the progress.   Then, depending on where the ink is worn off, you will be able to decide what the issue is.   It doesn't look like chamber reamer if the empty case fits fine.

yes as delivered the case should be below the hood as it's long.

was the round in the first photo a lead bullet?

it most likely was jamming into the leade.. It's a Ez-fit.. the pat # on the side is a give away..

on the rear upper lug there should be two humps that you will end up filing off( file is in the kit) to set the upper lug engagement.

jglenn21 wrote:yes as delivered the case should be below the hood as it's long.

was the round in the first photo a lead bullet?

it most likely was jamming into the leade.. It's a Ez-fit.. the pat # on the side is a give away..

on the rear upper lug there should be two humps that you will end up filing off( file is in the kit) to set the upper lug engagement.

The round in the chamber that pushed the rim beyond the hood were both hollow points. The shoulder of the bullet stuck out the top of the case and has a straight wall. 

I should have read your initial post better about it being an ez -fit.

It appears from your ammo photos that there is plenty of room to seat the bullets deeper.  I am assuming those are handloads because they do appear very long, especially the amount of full-diameter bullet that is showing.

-Ron

daflorc wrote:

The round in the chamber that pushed the rim beyond the hood were both hollow points. The shoulder of the bullet stuck out the top of the case and has a straight wall. 

If your basing fit on those two reloads thats the problem they are way off, bullets are seated way to far out of case. have you tried factory loaded ammo to see how it fits?

DavidR wrote:

daflorc wrote:

The round in the chamber that pushed the rim beyond the hood were both hollow points. The shoulder of the bullet stuck out the top of the case and has a straight wall. 

If your basing fit on those two reloads thats the problem they are way off, bullets are seated way to far out of case. have you tried factory loaded ammo to see how it fits?

Those two rounds pictures aren't reloads, I haven't started reloading 9mm yet. The brass cased one is a target hollow point from rushcreekammunition.com and is right about the OAL specified in Lyman's 50th reloading manual. The one in the aluminum case is a Sig Sauer JHP. They both do look like they're seated too far out of the case, and the Sig round maybe, but the rush creek rounds are spot on according to Lymans. I have some freedom munition target hollow points that look like they taper right out of the case mouth, I'm going to see how those fit tomorrow.

Kart barrels are not finish reamed and require being finish reamed after fitting the barrel. Headspace has nothing to do with the bullet. It's measured from slide breech face to forward edge of chamber.
Jon

The op says that an empty case fits fine but his loaded rounds do not.  I might be wrong but I believe that if the OP has an EZ fir barrel it should be finish reamed as it comes.

All of the Kart barrels I have see do no have any leade in them. and IMHO this does have something to do with the bullet shape.  Different bullets have different ogives, a RN 2R has a different ogive than say a truncated FMJ or some JHP's.  This leads to a different OAL, as an example the Hornady 8th edition reloading manual list 2 different OAL's in 9mm  for their 115 grain bullets. One is a HP-XTP listed at an OAL of 1.075" and the other is a FMJ-RN listed at an OAL of 1.100". Both weigh 115 grains and both are from the same manufacturer BUT the full diameter shank of the two bullets differ in length with the HP-XTP shank being visibly longer. If that HP-XTP were seated out to the same OAL as the FMJ-RN chances are the cartridge would not chamber unless the barrel had a very generous leade in the barrel (whick Kart barrels do not)

It's very important to use the correct OAL for the given bullet. Another example is the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook where it list 3 differet OAL in 9mm for three very different bullet shapes. 1.045" for a RN, .997" for a SWC and 1.110" for a trancated cone. The Nosler manual states that the S.A.A.M.I. oal for the 9mm as minimum of 1.000" and max as 1.169" and suggest that the reloader seats to the higher end of this range PROVIDED that they will function well with your particular firearm.

Just grabbing an OAL out of a reloading manual and saying the cartridge is within spec's without knowing what bullet manufacturer was used  can lead to huge problems and one of which is the OAL being to long to chamber in a firearm. It might work with some firearms that have a generous leade but those with a short leade or no leade will have chambering problems.

It all has to do with the OAL for that particular bullet.

Just my 2 cents
Virgil

"All of the Kart barrels I have see do no have any leade in them"

that's why Jon suggested finish reaming.. you can add the leade  with a finish reamer and not lengthen the chamber. certainly standard process for the gunsmith fit Karts..

Been a long time since I've messed with a Ez-fit..

Finish reaming only reams the chamber but you are correct in saying that you can also add leade but on all the finish reamers I have had none had any leade on them, if I wanted to add leade I had to use a different reamer

BTW you can finish ream and still shoot with no leade added.

all my finish chamber reamers have a throat or leade as well as free bore. might be unique to Manson but they do.. I also have throating reamers for different throat angles (cheaper than getting a custom angle on a chamber reamer).

as a point of reference for everyone:
(SAAMI specs refer to leade and throat as the same thing with free bore being the area just forward of the chamber absent of rifling..)

no argument on my side just how I view it

I would check it with Standard 115gn ball ammo with a SAAMI OAL and if it's still sticking out of the case return the barrel before you start work. 

SAAMI spec is no greater than 1.169 inches 

http://saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/Z299-3_ANSI-SAAMI%20_CFPandR.pdf#page=10

jglenn21 wrote:all my finish chamber reamers have a throat or leade as well as free bore. might be unique to Manson but they do.. I also have throating reamers for different throat angles (cheaper than getting a custom angle on a chamber reamer).  

as a point of reference for everyone:
(SAAMI specs refer to leade and throat as the same thing with free bore being the area just forward of the chamber absent of rifling..)

no argument on my side just how I view it

My Manson 45 finish reamer (left image) has no leade just for chamber depth.  The throat or leade Manson reamer (on right) is for only cutting the leade.  Could be that Manson makes different reamers?

No argument here either but I have built a few and have always done it this way. Never had a 45 acp finish reamer with a leade cutter on it. Now if you are talking rifle finish reamers, yes I do have those with the leade, freebore and chamber being done in all one cut.

  

I'm not a pro like Jerry or Jon, heck I have never slept in a Holiday Inn Express either. 

daflorc wrote:

DavidR wrote:

daflorc wrote:

The round in the chamber that pushed the rim beyond the hood were both hollow points. The shoulder of the bullet stuck out the top of the case and has a straight wall. 

If your basing fit on those two reloads thats the problem they are way off, bullets are seated way to far out of case. have you tried factory loaded ammo to see how it fits?

Those two rounds pictures aren't reloads, I haven't started reloading 9mm yet. The brass cased one is a target hollow point from rushcreekammunition.com and is right about the OAL specified in Lyman's 50th reloading manual. The one in the aluminum case is a Sig Sauer JHP. They both do look like they're seated too far out of the case, and the Sig round maybe, but the rush creek rounds are spot on according to Lymans. I have some freedom munition target hollow points that look like they taper right out of the case mouth, I'm going to see how those fit tomorrow.

[rtl]I just went to that website, those are  reloads and from the looks of those two done by someone who doesnt have a clue-how to reload. Id send that crap back and go to walmart and buy some factory american eagle, federal or remington or [/rtl]
All this is overthinking your issue, the kart ez fit and the newer ones with its new name exact fit barrels are ready to shoot once installed they dont need to be reamed to function, just read the info from their website.  All your issues lie in bad ammo, from a crap reloader, try some factory ammo before screwing with reamers and the such. 

Achieve A Match Quality Barrel Installation Using Only Hand Tools

Install a precision quality barrel using just four small hand tools. The only fitting required is to adjust lockup with the two raised pads located on either side of the rear locking groove, cut the barrel hood to correct length and fit the bushing to the slide. A national match bushing is pre-fit to the barrel; has oversize O.D. for precise fitting to slide. Bottom lugs are fully finished and the correct length link installed to save hours of work.


from the maker of that crap ammo website; note the use of the words remanufactured and various headstamps also the bullets are just plated which are barely plinking grade. 

9mm ammunition reloaded with 124 gr Target Hollow point fully plated bullets.  These are bagged in 1000ct bulk bags saving the cost of the boxes and is a very inexpensive way to shoot.  No exposed lead, remanufactured, headstamps vary.  Must be 21 years old to purchase, please email age verification to mtruax@rushcreekammo.com ,

this is what a correctly loaded 9mm hollowpoint should look like, get these and they will fit the barrel. 

They wouldn't fit in any 9 I own. I agree with David. Get some different ammo.

Len

Both my Clymer and Manson finish readers cut the leade angle as well.

my throater is the same other than having removable pilots( it's a 1.5 angle).. had to go look at my 45 reamer .. My bad, it's an old PTG from 05. It has a very short throat cut on the front. may have been a special order. long time ago.

Been using Manson for quite a while now, so I "ass u med" it was one of his... Manson does nice stuff at very fair prices as does Clymer.

DavidR wrote:All this is overthinking your issue, the kart ez fit and the newer ones with its new name exact fit barrels are ready to shoot once installed they dont need to be reamed to function, just read the info from their website.  All your issues lie in bad ammo, from a crap reloader, try some factory ammo before screwing with reamers and the such. 

I dropped some Freedom Munitions reloads in the barrel, it fit well. The issue I was seeing was definitely the Rush Creek and Sig Sauer rounds were seated too high, and the straight wall of the round was hitting the rifling. I ordered that Rush Creek stuff for plinking nearly a year ago, and figured since I had such a surplus I might as well convert my 38 super to 9mm to shoot it - didn't realize it wouldn't work. Oh, well. I've got the 9mm Kart barrel fit now, seems to be functioning good, seems to be holding pretty tight groups at 25 yards off a bench rest. Thanks for the advice.