What's going on?

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What's going on?

Post by Tim:H11 on 3/6/2017, 5:21 pm

Why is it that so many gravitate towards run n' gun sorts and not Precision Pistol? I'm 28 years old and I fear this sport and others like it won't be as active when I'm older. Heck they aren't as active now compared to years ago. I work at the range on the weekends as a range safety officer and often shooters ask me for help or advice to improve. But they don't want to shoot Precision Pistol they just want to shoot 15 yards or closer and move around and work from the holster. It looks fun but I feel there's more to be said about a pistol shooters marksmanship and his abilities when challenged at 50 yards.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Magload on 3/6/2017, 6:25 pm

This sopprt has really helped my SD shooting.  Today shooting two handed I was keep shots in a 4" circle at 20yds with a M&P Shield 45 ACP.  Up closer at real SD range it was to easy even with double taps.  The BE form has helped a lot.  I know what you are saying there is no interest in BE at my local indoor range.  Don
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Russ OR on 3/6/2017, 7:43 pm

When I discovered/started Bullseye I asked an old timer why not many people participated? - His answer, "Because it's hard, that's why".

Finding new Bullseye shooters is searching for needles in a Haystacks. Fortunately, with shooting as big as it is in this nation, there's lots of Haystacks. 

Over the years I've invited 30-40 people to the sport - Four of them still shoot Bullseye.   - - Wingdings Capital J

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Re: What's going on?

Post by AllAces on 3/6/2017, 8:14 pm

I know maybe 20 people who have for years participated in a weekly 30 shot league, but absolutely will not shoot an 1800 or 2700 match. Various reasons are given, but mostly it's too much trouble.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by zanemoseley on 3/6/2017, 8:38 pm

Tim, I shot the last match of 2016 at Columbia with you. That's the first time I've shot a match with someone younger than me lol. I'm about to turn 34 and entering my 3rd year of BE. I started because it was the only competitions offered at my local range besides 3P smallbore which I also shoot, it's also very challenging.

3 gun is more "sexy" for most younger guys. Also doesn't help that it's not as demanding as far as shooting accuracy goes. Not saying it doesn't take skill but you can flinch a shot off target occasionally without substantially hurting your score, not so pretty when you yank a BE shot off paper.

It also doesn't help you need $2000 to think about getting started.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Ghillieman on 3/6/2017, 11:17 pm

They want to role play their fantasy, and bullseye pistol will prove they are not as good of a shot as they think they are. But they will cite all sorts of excuses.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Model19 on 3/7/2017, 5:33 am

At my club the action sports draw the largest participation by far and has been for over a decade.  It is predominantly the younger guys game.   Some make the switch to BE as the years have piled on and the knees don't like the running (and hours of standing and walking) anymore.  Hell, I was a certified IDPA SO for years and ran that program along with our own action rifle series as well.  Not any more.  I like the calm zen-like state of slow fire now.  I certainly don't miss the range lawyers either!  There's no interpretation needed in these rules.  Highpower rifle draws a small but dedicated crew here as well but the standing to seated maneuver needed there gets to some of the guys too.   
And as several pointed out, BE is WAY harder accuracy-wise.  It humbles the few USPSA guys that try it occasionally. Not that they could not improve with practice though.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by willnewton on 3/7/2017, 6:43 am

I am 44 and the youngest in my regular league by 20 years and the only person that has come back for longer than a month in many years.

There is a club here having a "Championship Match" where you can enter several shooting events.  The pistol event is 25 two-handed shots with iron sight .22 pistol at 7 yards

7 YARDS?  Rolling Eyes
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Bigtrout on 3/7/2017, 7:46 am

The vast majority of my club's handgun shooters gravitate to the 7 yard range and most shoot at human images and practice tactical shooting.  I've only seen one bullseye shooter practicing at 25 and 50 yards in the 2 years I've been going to this range.  There are a lot of folks shooting clays on the berm from 7 and 25 yards.  Almost all tactical shooting is done by people in their 30's and younger.  There is no range officer but everyone I've seen respects another shooter going "cold" by emptying their chamber and removing the clip or opening the cylinder. The bang-bang crowd and AR shooters regularly destroy the target frame supports through careless shooting or just plain ignorance.  We do have range rules that forbid this but when no one is there it's difficult to enforce.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by BE Mike on 3/7/2017, 8:17 am

Russ OR wrote:When I discovered/started Bullseye I asked an old timer why not many people participated? - His answer, "Because it's hard, that's why".
^^^^^THIS^^^^ Plus: It is not supported by the military as it was in the 50's through the mid-70's. Back then every base or post had a team. It also is very time consuming, both at the match and in preparation. It demands dedication. It is physically very demanding to shoot a one-day 2700. Personally, I think it would behoove active bullseye clubs interested in increasing participation to host some 1800's. Today's pistol shooters don't find it relevant to real life defense to shoot beyond 7 yds. IMHO, as one who has shot PPC, NRA Action Pistol, Steel Challenge, IPSC, NRA Hunter's Pistol, IHMSA, International, etc., as well as, Precision Pistol, I'm happy that I got a firm foundation in Bullseye before branching out. The marksmanship skills gained are readily transferable to the other pistol disciplines. From what I read, it isn't just the difficult sport of bullseye pistol where participation is rapidly declining. It appears that difficult sports like tennis and golf are declining.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Wobbley on 3/7/2017, 11:17 am

BE Mike wrote:
It is physically very demanding to shoot a one-day 2700. Personally, I think it would behoove active bullseye clubs interested in increasing participation to host some 1800's. 
Since the CF and 45 are usually fired with the same gun, this makes a lot of sense.  How much is really gained by shooting 45 twice?  Most people want to shoot the match for recreation.  A full 2700 in one day makes it too much like work.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Aprilian on 3/7/2017, 11:28 am

At least where I compete, you can fire 1, 2 or all 3 900 matches.   There is no pressure to shoot all.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by AllAces on 3/7/2017, 11:37 am

If the objective is to shorten the matches and move things along, ranges could do the following:

Shoot an 1800 match and let shooters choose all rimfire, rimfire and CF (assuming .38), or rimfire and .45.
Make it a no alibi match.
Shoot at 25 yards only.
Shoot a sanctioned 2700 match every other month.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by dronning on 3/7/2017, 11:43 am

Wobbley wrote:
BE Mike wrote:
It is physically very demanding to shoot a one-day 2700. Personally, I think it would behoove active bullseye clubs interested in increasing participation to host some 1800's. 
Since the CF and 45 are usually fired with the same gun, this makes a lot of sense.  How much is really gained by shooting 45 twice?  Most people want to shoot the match for recreation.  A full 2700 in one day makes it too much like work.

1800's or a couple of 3 gun 900's (3 NMC) and give you the opportunity to shoot another relay.  Think about it, Perry only shoots a 900 per day, unless you shoot the team match as well.
- Dave
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Re: What's going on?

Post by jmdavis on 3/7/2017, 12:59 pm

Some of us don't want to drive 2+ hours to shoot an 1800.  I will do it on occasion, but would not do it regularly.

I agree that a 2700 is demanding, but I have watched 79 year olds shoot them in 95 heat.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by joy2shoot on 3/7/2017, 1:08 pm

This thread makes me more appreciative of what I have.  During the match season, I have two sanctioned monthly 2700s within a 1 hour drive (thanks Clark, thanks Cecil).  Year round I have a non-sanctioned 900 twice a month (thanks Ray, thanks Willie).

When I practice it is not uncommon to get an audience, especially when I shoot 50 yards.  The audience likes to watch but none are interested in trying the sport.  'Target is too far away' is the usual response.  My response is you develop the same skills as a sniper; patience, timing and long distance accuracy.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Olde Pilot on 3/7/2017, 1:36 pm

Some of us unfortunate ones have to drive 45 miles to practice and 100-150 miles to the nearest matches which we wish were all one day 2700s in order to make the travel worthwhile. My usual shooting partner is 78 and I'm 76. So, with respect to all, if a one day 2700 is too fatiguing, try to get in better shape. BUT, we understand that many have physical limitations and are comfortable with only a 900 or 1800. So be it. No problem.

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Re: What's going on?

Post by Jack H on 3/7/2017, 2:07 pm

Age, health, travel, $$$ etc are indeed factors.  My biggest problem that limits my practice is too many other things in my life.  Bigtrout's range sounds very familiar.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Lightfoot on 3/7/2017, 3:53 pm

We need to add a "tactical" classification.  Something about that word just makes everything cooler and better.  For example have you seen the Mossburg 464 Spx hideousity?  If we added lights and lasers and bayonets maybe we could break into new markets!  HAHA!
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Re: What's going on?

Post by MarkF45 on 3/7/2017, 4:25 pm

The OP is asking this question in the wrong forum. Go to Brian Enos's Practical Forum and ask the question there. You probably won't like what you read.

In addition to the other answers given, my theory is that Combat Pistol is more like the video games your generation grew up playing.


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Re: What's going on?

Post by Vociferous on 3/7/2017, 4:42 pm

Bullseye is good for me.  I'm fat, got bad knees and my eyes can't see crap close up.  But, with training and practice, I can hold the gun steady and can score well.  I will say, though, the run and gun is a boat full of fun.  Being in the Raleigh area, I am very fortunate.  Clark's and Cecil's matches start this month......
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Tim:H11 on 3/7/2017, 6:56 pm

How can we make the sport more interesting to younger shooters? How can we give this sport an image that compares to the "tacti-cool" kind of crowd? And the second question isn't intending to make Bullseye look tactical, I simply mean how can we come off interesting enough to those that chase the run-n-gun game and get them to try our game?

And thank you to all that have replied to this post.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by Chris Miceli on 3/7/2017, 7:32 pm

bullseye is a boring sport to watch. I get bored of watching the relay before me shoot. 

Air pistol needs to be introduced into schools and clubs then you transition them into shooting bullseye.

People that don't enjoy an internal challenge are not draw to this difficult sport.  The best we can do is advertise the sport more, maybe we will pickup a few new shooters.

Also you'll never make a full time career out of shooting bullseye, the run and gun game you have a better chance for sponsorship and recouping expenses.  Last year a few top run and gun shooters shot @ Perry. They are at the top of their shooting sport, they know how difficult bullseye is.
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Re: What's going on?

Post by rreid on 3/7/2017, 7:53 pm

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Re: What's going on?

Post by kjanracing on 3/7/2017, 10:08 pm

Defensive skills would probably be a good thing to have. I'm worried that if I had to pull my gun on an intruder, I'd be listening for the range commands before I fired!
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Re: What's going on?

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