Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

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Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by radjag on 3/23/2017, 12:14 am

I live far away from any Bullseye Competition Clubs and so am not able to ask anyone directly.

I've recently returned to pistol shooting after a 40 year hiatus. I don't shoot competition, but I do practice fairly seriously and do want to achieve the best groups that I can - just my personal challenge. I used to shoot precision comps back in the day, but now my old eyes don't work well with iron sights. I've experimented with several different brands of the currently popular red dots (Vortex Venom, Burris Fastfire and several cheap Chinese knock-offs), mounted on the slides of various 1911's, but have mixed results. My local club range only goes out to 15yds, but I might shoot at up to 25yds at other ranges not too far away.

I'm buying several precision pistols and am struggling to decide what sights to buy. I was considering a C-more with a bridge mount as used on all of the IPSC/IDPA competition guns, but I wonder whether such sights are best suited to slow fire precision shooting? I have read that the Camp Perry style Bullseye shooters all swear by tube style Ultradots, presumably because they have to shoot at different yardages during the course of a match and those scopes offer easy "click" adjustment. But they would not typically shoot at only 15 yards.

So, what should I buy?

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by daflorc on 3/23/2017, 1:01 am

I've gotten my smallest groups with a 1911 with light reloads, an ultradot red dot...and most importantly, a great trigger. Most guys use Ultradots because you can adjust the size of the dot to 4 different sizes, they have very little parallax, and are quality all around - water resistant, shockproof, and time tested.

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by LenV on 3/23/2017, 8:31 am

The Sightron S-30 is another good choice. I was an Ultradot guy but lately I have been leaning towards the Sightron. The newer Ultradots have a small image reduction when looking thru them. Still a great choice if you get one priced right. Not all Ultradots have multiple size dots.

Len
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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by Sc0 on 3/23/2017, 8:55 am

I was seriously looking into the C-More until i discovered that the sight adjustments were friction and not click adjustments. If you don't need sight adjustments then it might be ideal when combined with a 90 degree mount to keep the dot low to the bore centerline. With that said, the Ultradots are cheaper and are usually reliable. The Aimpoint Micros are the best and most expensive of the dot sights... I am nowhere near a Master shooter so am pretty happy with my Ultradots.

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by SteveT on 3/23/2017, 11:32 am

What problems are you having? I dry fire at about 17 feet and have no problems with scopes.

Tube scopes are much more common. It probably helps to block out distractions and focus our attention on the dot and/or target but it could also be that Ultra-Dot hit the cost / performance balance really well and won us over. BTW that ratio is not as good since they started charging for "warranty" repairs and require proof of purchase. Grrr. I'm pretty sure I've bought my last Ultra-Dot.

If you want the best, the Aimpoint Micro is the way to go. The only downside is that they cost over $600.

The only caution I would make is stated above. Some of the panoramic sights are not click adjustable. The old Docter sight I used when I first started had very course adjustment with a lot of backlash. It took a lot of trial and error to get it sighted in and forget about making adjustments at different ranges.
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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by Froneck on 3/23/2017, 1:28 pm

I would check the parallax on a scope before buying it. Most of the cheap scopes are adjusted at 100 yards and intended for rifle. As the range gets shorter the parallax gets worse. If you constantly keep the dot in the center of the scope then parallax is not a big concern.

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by radjag on 3/23/2017, 3:28 pm

Thanks to everyone for the excellent feedback. I have ordered an Ultradot Match Dot II and hope to try it on a newly acquired Walther GSP this weekend. Fingers crossed.

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by gregbenner on 3/23/2017, 10:05 pm

I got both an Ultradot Match II and a Burris FF3 for my GSP Expert. Both nice.  I use the FF3 because it is much lighter, 1.7oz v 7.6oz.

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by radjag on 3/26/2017, 7:16 pm

I got an Ultradot Match Dot II and fitted it to my GSP using a rail from Earl's (what fantastic old-style service they give). Tried it on Saturday and am very satisfied. I think that it suits the GSP very well, looks the business and I found it very straight-forward to adjust zero, etc.

Since I mostly shoot at only 15yds the 2moa and 4moa settings are best for me. But it is good to have a wide choice on this gun in case I ever do go to other ranges.

Having tried many different red dots I am now satisfied that the Ultradot tube style best suits my precision target guns (I have a couple of decent revolvers and will probably buy the cheaper fixed 4moa tubes for them). For the small format red dots, my favourite is the Vortex Venom, it has a top loading battery and I find that I can pick up the dot more easily with that model compared to others. I will use those for any future slide mount guns.

I really appreciate all of the comments and advice.

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by Magload on 3/26/2017, 8:48 pm

radjag wrote:I got an Ultradot Match Dot II and fitted it to my GSP using a rail from Earl's (what fantastic old-style service they give). Tried it on Saturday and am very satisfied. I think that it suits the GSP very well, looks the business and I found it very straight-forward to adjust zero, etc.

Since I mostly shoot at only 15yds the 2moa and 4moa settings are best for me. But it is good to have a wide choice on this gun in case I ever do go to other ranges.

Having tried many different red dots I am now satisfied that the Ultradot tube style best suits my precision target guns (I have a couple of decent revolvers and will probably buy the cheaper fixed 4moa tubes for them). For the small format red dots, my favourite is the Vortex Venom, it has a top loading battery and I find that I can pick up the dot more easily with that model compared to others. I will use those for any future slide mount guns.

I really appreciate all of the comments and advice.
I have a Vortex Venom mounted on my 9mm RO.  Had the slide milled for it.  I am not shooting BE with it but think I could with a little work on the gun.  Don
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Venom

Post by Mac2 on 3/26/2017, 10:10 pm

Have placed Venom red-dot sight on several slides without failure - yet.  Reworked M&P Pro CORE 9L (5 inch barrel).  Two G34 Gen4 MOS.  Q5.  
May place on TP9SFx when it arrives.  However, people have had good indoor performance with the $19 Chinese sights on Mark IV Lite and Victory as long as they keep things centered.  Of course, those are fixed barrel 22LR pistols.

Several did not like the controls on Burris FF3.  Mac

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by Warhorse on 4/3/2017, 1:40 pm

Ultradot Match dot II for my money.

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by Magload on 4/3/2017, 3:16 pm

Mac2 wrote:Have placed Venom red-dot sight on several slides without failure - yet.  Reworked M&P Pro CORE 9L (5 inch barrel).  Two G34 Gen4 MOS.  Q5.  
May place on TP9SFx when it arrives.  However, people have had good indoor performance with the $19 Chinese sights on Mark IV Lite and Victory as long as they keep things centered.  Of course, those are fixed barrel 22LR pistols.

Several did not like the controls on Burris FF3.  Mac
I have a FF II and a III and do not like the controls.  The sight is good but my fingers are too fat to push those little rubber buttons.  Match Dot II on all my target pistols I have three of them.  Bought a Ultra Dot for my GP100 but havn't shot with it yet.  I fine most cheap red dots and lasers can be a bear to adjust and often they don't stay adjusted.I junked a bunch of them from my paint ball days after trying them on real guns.  I just put one of the new Halo Sun red dots on my new 9mm carbine and so far like it a lot.  Don
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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by Mac2 on 4/3/2017, 9:32 pm

Burris FF3 has been found to be less than desirable from control point of view.  One competitor had me replace with cheep sight because it had an actual on/off switch.  Also had one FF3 fail - was eventually replaced by Burris.  Great pleasure with a Venom in pressing the rear button for four seconds and seeing the dot go off!  Venom is said to be available (soon?) with 6 MOA dot, which might be better for some people.  

Those with HM status who actually can see the X ring profit from the 1 or 2 MOA dots.  Others, not so clear.  I keep a Millett RD00006SP (under $70) on hand because it can be adjusted with ease to have 3, 5, 8, or 10 MOA dots.  Use of the Millett can give a shooter an idea of what size dot works for them.  5 MOA is often what is selected, but everyone is different.  [The off-set error of the Millett is very small at 25 and 50 yards]  I also have on hand a very low cost red-dot sight with what looks like a 1 MOA dot.  Put that on competitor's pistol and right away they understand.

Several good suggestions from this group, but watch out for using a dot that is too small.    Mac

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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by Magload on 4/3/2017, 9:40 pm

Mac2 wrote:Burris FF3 has been found to be less than desirable from control point of view.  One competitor had me replace with cheep sight because it had an actual on/off switch.  Also had one FF3 fail - was eventually replaced by Burris.  Great pleasure with a Venom in pressing the rear button for four seconds and seeing the dot go off!  Venom is said to be available (soon?) with 6 MOA dot, which might be better for some people.  

Those with HM status who actually can see the X ring profit from the 1 or 2 MOA dots.  Others, not so clear.  I keep a Millett RD00006SP (under $70) on hand because it can be adjusted with ease to have 3, 5, 8, or 10 MOA dots.  Use of the Millett can give a shooter an idea of what size dot works for them.  5 MOA is often what is selected, but everyone is different.  [The off-set error of the Millett is very small at 25 and 50 yards]  I also have on hand a very low cost red-dot sight with what looks like a 1 MOA dot.  Put that on competitor's pistol and right away they understand.

Several good suggestions from this group, but watch out for using a dot that is too small.    Mac
The 1 MOA dot on my Matchdot II works well when benchresting for groups when testing ammo.  I turn the brightness down till I can just see the dot making it look even smaller.  you can hold center X ring.  Don
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Re: Best sight for 15 to 25 yard precision shooting

Post by Bigtrout on 4/4/2017, 8:08 am

FF3 for my RO9 and U-dot HD Micro for my 986 give me very good accuracy at 25 yds.  The 2 MOA U-dot has 11 brightness settings, is easy to dial in and turn off.   The FF3 3 MOA only has 4 brightness settings but the next-to-last setting is good for sunny days and the last setting is good for dark days. The adjusting knobs can be sketchy as there is no detente.  I did get the HD micro replaced in February as the original would not hold zero and U-dot service was very good.  On my good days they group 8 of 10 less than 1" at 25 yards from a manual bench rest.
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