What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

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What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by zanemoseley on Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:54 pm

So theoretically what is the advantage of a jacketed bullet in a 45. Unlike rifles and faster pistol calibers there isn't really any risk of leading with a solid lead bullet travelling only 800-900 fps. What are the advantages?

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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by Jon Eulette on Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:23 pm

I personally see no advantage from competition perspective. I've seen borh group under 1" at 50 yds. Jacketed requires more velocity to group well. I also think jacketed recoils more! I've had that discussion with other HM and most agree. Typically jacketed will slightly group better than lead but not enough to warrant the cost. So unless your pushing national records it isn't worth it. I dropped 15 points on long line last weekend with lead using 3.7gr BE with 200 lswc. I don't think I would've benefited from better ammunition. All shots were on call.
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by zanemoseley on Thu Apr 13, 2017 5:44 pm

Thanks for the feedback Jon. Sounds like I'll be sticking with lead, I like cheap and low recoil.

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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by jglenn21 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:11 pm

The zero and magnus swaged 185 SWCHP is an outstanding bullet for the long line.  Not much difference between it and the zero 185 JHP in my 45
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by Chris Miceli on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:12 pm

Jon is right...but the best lead group isn't better than the best jacked group. 

Jacked bullet don't require cleaning your reloading dies.
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by Tim:H11 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:30 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:Jon is right...but the best lead group isn't better than the best jacked group. 

Jacked bullet don't require cleaning your reloading dies.

I'm supposed to clean my reloading dies?!
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by Chris Miceli on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:34 pm

Tim:H11 wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:Jon is right...but the best lead group isn't better than the best jacked group. 

Jacked bullet don't require cleaning your reloading dies.

I'm supposed to clean my reloading dies?!
My bullet seating die and crimp die get caked with lube
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by VolScorpion on Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:35 pm

What number is the magnus swchp?

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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by jglenn21 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:19 pm

814 I believe
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by jglenn21 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:
Tim:H11 wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:Jon is right...but the best lead group isn't better than the best jacked group. 

Jacked bullet don't require cleaning your reloading dies.

I'm supposed to clean my reloading dies?!
My bullet seating die and crimp die get caked with lube



you need to work on that or change bullet lube.

I get very little build up these days with std cast bullet lube
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by VolScorpion on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:42 pm

Magnus is $45 to ship 4, 500 count boxes of the SWCHP? That seems a little high

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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by Chris Miceli on Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:31 am

jglenn21 wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:
Tim:H11 wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:Jon is right...but the best lead group isn't better than the best jacked group. 

Jacked bullet don't require cleaning your reloading dies.

I'm supposed to clean my reloading dies?!
My bullet seating die and crimp die get caked with lube



you need to work on that or change bullet lube.

I get very little build up these days with std cast bullet lube
Yeah I load jacked problem solved
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by CR10X on Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:17 am

You should still clean reloading dies, no matter which you use.  I do it before every 2000 - to 3000 round reloading batch. They will work better, last longer and produce better rounds.  You will not believe the crud that builds up in a carbide sizing die unless you see it yourself.  A little bit of wax or other stuff can change the seating depth especially for shoulder seating inserts.  Stuff does build up at the top of the crimp dies for taper crimp rounds too.  Use something like Kroil for the dies, a little grease on the threads and that will also reduce your chances for rust.  

Powder measures / powder dies should just be dry brushed, but check the powder funnel / flaring die for crud at the very top of where the case gets expanded. Check inside powder measure chambers and brush out the inside of the powder die too. 

Check shell plates for little particles as well.  Underside of the case guide into station one for a 550 / 650 Dillon and be sure to open up and brush out the primer assembly about once a year too. 

AND, be sure to take a very small patch with alcohol and clean out the inside of those primer tubes about once a year if you reload a lot. (All that yellow green stuff is primer dust).   

One time preventive maintenance a year will reduce your down time when actually reloading.  And time saved equals more time training.

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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by jglenn21 on Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:57 am

Give Terry at Magnus a call and talk to him about pricing e and shipping. He's a BE shooter too
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by 243winxb on Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:34 am

Lead- Cast may have air bubbles. Swagged better, but softer.

Factory jacketed would be my choice, if and when i hit the lottery.
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by L Valdez on Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:47 pm

Jon Eulette wrote: I dropped 15 points on long line last weekend with lead using 3.7gr BE with 200 lswc. 

More dry firing needed

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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by Jon Eulette on Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:16 pm

L Valdez wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote: I dropped 15 points on long line last weekend with lead using 3.7gr BE with 200 lswc. 

More dry firing needed
Luis,
More everything needed :l)
Practiced 3-4 times since November. I love lswc!
Jon
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by Froneck on Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:44 am

Quite a few years ago I was using lead because Adam was young and doing a lot of practice yet he wasn't quite good enough yet to switch to Jacketed. Also about the same time I got into the Cast Bullet Association. Really selective group, send your membership fee in and you a member and get the monthly magazine that was about 20 pages simply printed on white paper. However there was quite a few interesting articles in it. I seen an Advertisement by a guy making that Red Bullet lube near New Mexico or state in the vicinity. Sold a book, "Getting Jacketed Performance from Lead Bullets" was cheap only a few dollars so I purchased it. He supposedly did lot of testing on leading and found that leading was due to lead being cut off the bullet as it entered the rifling. The "chip" of lead was then pushed down the barrel by the next bullet which in turn left a chips of it's own and so on. He suggested changing the lead in angle to 6 degrees, 3 degrees per side. The rifling will now be squeezed into the lead not cut by the sharp angle. I decided to try it and made a lap to alter the angle on my 45 barrel. He also suggested lapping the bore with JB bore paste by lubeing about 100 lead bullets with the JB to polish the barrel. Not to worry the JB will not hurt the barrel even if 500 or more were shot he also included. Haven't been casting for a while and too lazy to to make a small batch I took a bunch of 185gr lead bullets casted by a local commercial bullet caster that never shot well nor for anyone I talked to about them. (His 200gr did shoot good) Figured they were no good anyway why not use those I had to lap my barrel. Removed that hard Green Lube from them and filled the grove with JB and loaded little over 200 of those I had. Heck since I had to shoot them why not practice at 25 yards, so me and Adam put up a target and started shooting. The bullets were shooting good and got better as I we shot. So I tried some at 50 yards and was surprised as to how accurate they were now shooting. After shooting and cleaning the gun, JB was all over it. I shot the 200gr with green lube, shot better than before Plus Jacketed got better too!  Adam shooting at least 100 rounds a day experienced No leading. Later when he graduated to Jacketed that same barrel took him over the 700's and into the 800's and is also the barrel that was in his gun the AMU tested that shot 50X out of the rest. I now continue to do the same with new barrels.

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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by Chris Miceli on Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:00 pm

Froneck wrote:Quite a few years ago I was using lead because Adam was young and doing a lot of practice yet he wasn't quite good enough yet to switch to Jacketed. Also about the same time I got into the Cast Bullet Association. Really selective group, send your membership fee in and you a member and get the monthly magazine that was about 20 pages simply printed on white paper. However there was quite a few interesting articles in it. I seen an Advertisement by a guy making that Red Bullet lube near New Mexico or state in the vicinity. Sold a book, "Getting Jacketed Performance from Lead Bullets" was cheap only a few dollars so I purchased it. He supposedly did lot of testing on leading and found that leading was due to lead being cut off the bullet as it entered the rifling. The "chip" of lead was then pushed down the barrel by the next bullet which in turn left a chips of it's own and so on. He suggested changing the lead in angle to 6 degrees, 3 degrees per side. I decided to try it and made a lap to alter the angle on my 45 barrel. He also suggested lapping the bore with JB bore paste by lubeing about 100 lead bullets with the JB. Not to worry the JB will not hurt the barrel even if 500 were shot he also included. Haven't been casting for a while and too lazy to to make a small batch I took a bunch of 185gr lead bullets casted by a local commercial bullet caster that never shot well nor for anyone I talked to about them. (His 200gr did shoot good) Figured they were no good anyway why not use those I had to lap my barrel. Removed that hard Green Lube from them and filled the grove with JB and loaded little over 200 of those I had. Heck since I had to shoot them why not practice at 25 yards so me and Adam put up a target and started shooting. The bullets were shooting good and got better as I we shot. So I tried some at 50 yards and was surprised as to how accurate they were now shooting. After shooting and cleaning the gun, JB was all over it. I shot the 200gr with green lube, shot better than before Plus Jacketed got better!  Adam shooting at least 100 rounds a day experienced No leading. Later when he graduated to Jacketed that same barrel took him over the 700's and into the 800's and is also the barrel that was in his gun the AMU tested that shot 50X out of the rest. I now continue to do the same with new barrels.
Very interesting!
I've seen pictures of those who have gasoline washed their lead bullets and a lot of lead chips and flakes are left in the pan.
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by jglenn21 on Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:28 pm

oh yeah lots of chips... I use mineral spirits to wash mine, then apply 45-45-10 to the bullets..

A loooong leade is easy on lead and jacketed bullets. There are a few custom BE smiths using non stock leade angles


using bullets with a fine lapping compound on/in them really smooths out the throat. JB is around 1800 grit if memory serves. This has become fairly common on rifles using 600-800 grits .. especially factory barrels.
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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

Post by noylj on Sun Apr 16, 2017 1:50 pm

Most swaged bullets today are 95/5 or 92/6/2. I've shot softer cast bullets.
I don't know how you can end up with lube caked in your dies, unless you are very sloppy with the lube.
When I cast bullets, I shot them as-cast and tumble lubed in LLA. I lube 200-500 at a time and only use enough lube that they have a shiny/wet look and, when dry, you can't even see the lube.
If I had to clean my dies every 2-3000 rounds, I would look into what I was doing wrong and correct it.
Chamfering the case ONCE when I get it, lightly inside and out, prevent almost all brass shavings from the expander and seating die. Not using too much lube prevents any build-up in the seating and crimp dies.
I have never seen any crud in my sizing dies.
We all seem to have our own experiences.

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Re: What is the advantage of Jacketed versus lead swc in a 45?

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