Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

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Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by jmdavis on 4/16/2017, 9:12 pm

Today I tested a load at 50 yards with the ransom rest. I shot this load yesterday for a 97-5 at 50 yards with all shots on call. 

Today I observed that the two magazines I used for the wad gun behave differently. #1 produces a round group for 15 shots of 1.75 inches. #2 produces a 3 inch group with vertical stringing. 

The brass was the same. Loads were the same. The method for firing was the same, but the magazines were not.
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by Jon Eulette on 4/16/2017, 9:19 pm

Yep....been there done that. Just because magazine feeds doesn't mean its feeding correctly. If it has the slightest hiccup or speedbump when cycling the groups will grow.
Jon
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by Magload on 4/16/2017, 9:37 pm

What next?  Now I need to break out the RR and test group all my mags.  I read that one should only use one mag, but what if you pick the wrong one to use.  Then to you can't fire 4 rounds and switch mags as a mag switch can effect the 6th round.  When testing with the RR I have noted that the first round when loading a mag is the farthest from POA.
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by messenger on 4/16/2017, 10:12 pm

When I test I use a 10 round mag. I also use a shim about the thickness of a razor blade. I load the magazine with seven rounds. I put the shim under the elevation adjustment to raise the pistol slightly so the first shot misses the target. Shoot the next five then drop the magazine with the last round in it. Reload and repeat. If you are going to get a flyer it seems it's the first and last round in the mag. YMMV.

Bill
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by Sa-tevp on 4/16/2017, 10:22 pm

Dumb question. Why not shoot 30 rounds to show the worst the pistol and ammo will do?

Three slide drops to show first round shots like in competition?

(I've also seen magazines affect Ransom Rest testing)
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by Merick on 4/16/2017, 11:10 pm

There could be a variable between the two magazines, such as one being dirty, manufacturing tolerance difference, spring wear or something else.  Or it could be that there is not enough of a sample size or confidence interval to draw a conclusion. 

Pull your hair out chasing down what is wrong with the magazine or simply find another that groups well.

Also don't forget it is entirely possible that hand held performance could be better (or worse) than off a ransom rest so it may not even be a problem.

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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by messenger on 4/16/2017, 11:31 pm

Sa-tevp wrote:Dumb question. Why not shoot 30 rounds to show the worst the pistol and ammo will do?

Three slide drops to show first round shots like in competition?

(I've also seen magazines affect Ransom Rest testing)
The whole idea behind RR testing is to find the best ammo combination for said pistol. To do that all other influences have to be removed. Once the optimum load is found, move on to the next step. Testing and tuning magazines is just another step. One step at a time. I know shooters that will use one magazine for the whole match for consistency. I have seen DR shooters use the same chamber in their revolver for each shot in slow fire. I hope I have answered your question.

Bill
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by AllAces on 4/17/2017, 6:50 am

About a year ago I did extensive Ransom Rest testing with an RO using four different magazines and found no discernable difference.
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by Magload on 4/17/2017, 8:24 am

AllAces wrote:About a year ago I did extensive Ransom Rest testing with an RO using four different magazines and found no discernable difference.
There you go you have 4 good mags.  That I a good thing to know.  Don
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by BE Mike on 4/17/2017, 8:35 am

The only question I have is why you felt the need to test a load when you shot a 97 with your hand? If indeed you are a Marksman, you don't need to try to find a load that will wring out every X. Now if you are a Master and striving to be a High Master, then go for it!
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by Magload on 4/17/2017, 8:46 am

I don't know about Allaces but I do it because I enjoy doing it.  Don
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by jmdavis on 4/17/2017, 9:27 am

BE Mike wrote:The only question I have is why you felt the need to test a load when you shot a 97 with your hand? If indeed you are a Marksman, you don't need to try to find a load that will wring out every X. Now if you are a Master and striving to be a High Master, then go for it!

Mike, I know what my existing load can do on and off the ransom rest. I know that my new load has shown consistently better performance at 50 yards when I have shot it over the past couple of weeks. Three personal bests at 50 in three practice sessions. My reason for testing it was to determine if the limited variable results were ad good as the other load. They were better with the one magazine. The other magazine was worse. 

I do not yet shoot consistent 97s with the 45 and the 45 is largely why I am a Marksman. I will be happy to PM you my NRA number if you like.
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by jmdavis on 4/17/2017, 9:40 am

Jon Eulette wrote:Yep....been there done that. Just because magazine feeds doesn't mean its feeding correctly. If it has the slightest hiccup or speedbump when cycling the groups will grow.
Jon
Thanks Jon.  I may have to start following your advice to Chris M, about magazines and process.
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Re: Magazines and ransom rests, an observation

Post by Chris Miceli on 4/17/2017, 10:01 am

jmdavis wrote:
Jon Eulette wrote:Yep....been there done that. Just because magazine feeds doesn't mean its feeding correctly. If it has the slightest hiccup or speedbump when cycling the groups will grow.
Jon
Thanks Jon.  I may have to start following your advice to Chris M, about magazines and process.

One mag only for this guy =]
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