Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

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Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by zanemoseley on 4/29/2017, 7:46 pm

I've been shooting air pistol for almost as long as bullseye as practice. I just got an Evo 10 which I love. I'm curious what the users of LP50 5 shot pistols think of using them for practice at timed and rapid fire. Seems like it might help get your rhythm and process refined however the lack of recoil seems like it might limit the benefit.

Also seems like Steyr should be coming out with an Evo 50 soon.

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by dronning on 4/29/2017, 8:21 pm

I use an LP50 for sustained fire training.  I have the heavy trigger option, 1911 grips and an optic.  One thing you said that I do not do and that is shoot to a rhythm. I focus on process refinement, grip and trigger control, not rhythm.  I practice on standard AP size targets, so even though there isn't much recoil you have to recover to the center of a much smaller target which makes up for lack of recoil.
- Dave
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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Sa-tevp on 4/29/2017, 8:22 pm

Waste of time. Wink

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Chris Miceli on 4/29/2017, 8:23 pm

dronning wrote:I use an LP50 for sustained fire training.  I have the heavy trigger option, 1911 grips and an optic.  One thing you said that I do not do and that is shoot to a rhythm. I focus on process refinement, grip and trigger control, not rhythm.  I practice on standard AP size targets, so even though there isn't much recoil you have to recover to the center of a much smaller target which makes up for lack of recoil.
- Dave

Does the gun feel muzzle heavy compared to a 1911? Or does the balance feel off?
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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by dronning on 4/29/2017, 8:31 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:Does the gun feel muzzle heavy compared to a 1911? Or does the balance feel off?

I have the standard length not the compact, so yes it does feel muzzle heavy, but in a way that helps develop control (IMHO).  I would have bought the compact but I got a screamin' deal on a used standard length.
- Dave

I've shot a slow fire 552/600 with it on AP targets, with the trigger set @4lb, 1911 grips and iron sights. My high score with my LP10e is a 568.
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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by zanemoseley on 4/29/2017, 10:00 pm

Dang Dronning, a 568 is pretty legit. I'm pretty stoked when I break 550.

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by dronning on 4/29/2017, 11:29 pm

zanemoseley wrote:Dang Dronning, a 568 is pretty legit. I'm pretty stoked when I break 550.
Thanks,
The 568 was the only time above 560, before that it was a 558 (an ACES Postal event) but I haven't been above a 550 for a while.  That's all on me, not enough trigger time.  I have both a SCATT & SIUS set up in the basement for training and practicing.  Training or practicing use to be almost a meditation thing for me, a way to lose myself, but I over did it, and I needed to step away for a while.
- Dave
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Far too expensive an experiment and ineffective

Post by Mac2 on 4/30/2017, 10:12 am

Sounds like a good idea.  Winter indoor practice to include something like timed and rapid fire practice with a required trigger force somewhat like that of a bullseye pistol.  Huge expense for LP50 for each of us and the stuff to charge the cylinders was a major pain.  Descriptions of the several bits of plumbing are scant - ended up with several converters in a row.  Almost easy part was finding a folding holder for trap and a mat to go behind trap on a door (for errant pellets).  . . . and then only one of the LP50 worked with the five shot mag that is included.  The documentation ranges from fair to very poor.   No singe shot mag is included.  However, a one notch rail that might be able to mount a red-dot-sight is included without clear idea of how to use it.  Pictures on German advertisement let one guess how to use.  Much of the pain came from my assumption - in the void of useful information - that the pistol air cylinders should be filled to a full 200 bar, which suggests the need for a source greater than 200 bar.  In turn that led to a high pressure pump and a 300 bar tank and a long sequence of converter-plumbing.  [at least two types of "quick disconnects" exist that look almost alike]

If you are tempted, here is how greatly to simplify the process:  Accept not filling the pistol tanks to 200 bar.  Buy a 200 bar tank (tends to be lower cost) that has a 200 bar attachment that will fit the adapter included with the LP50.  Make trips to Scuba shop to have the 200 bar tank filled as its pressure gets too low.  With this adaptation it is not possible to overfill pistol's tank and it is not possible to get maximum number of shots from a filled tank.

Shop on line for shops in Europe that will sell things at good price even including shipping (you will not pay their "VAT").  A $75 magazine sells for about 35 Euros including VAT.  

All in all - the project was a learning experience, but ultimately stupid.  Winters in the North tend to provoke too many ideas.

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Magload on 4/30/2017, 11:08 am

Are the hand pumps worth trying.  A good one is not cheap but I don't want to do the tank thing again.  Had enough of that when my son and I took up paint ball and bought a large CO2 tank to fill our small bottles.  Not planning on doing a lot of shooting and figured a hand pump would do me.  All I can do with this V10 I bought is very slow slow fire.  Don
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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by C.Perkins on 4/30/2017, 12:07 pm

Since purchasing a PCP air pistol have been using a Hill hand pump.
Works very well.
Pump I believe goes to 250 BAR, but my Steyr cylinders are just 200 BAR.
I wont mess with tanks and such when a pump is just too simple to operate.

Clarence
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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by zanemoseley on 4/30/2017, 12:21 pm

I found a used 3300 psi scuba tank used local from a guy that does scuba lessons. Was a bit of a debacle getting the right valve and getting it to hold air, eventually he got me the correct DIN valve and replaced the oring. With the 3300 psi capacity I've used the tank to shoot over a tin of pellets and it's still filling the pistol tanks to 200 bar, I don't plan on refilling the scuba until it gets down to 150 bar or so. My guess is that I'll only have to refill a couple times a year.


Last edited by zanemoseley on 4/30/2017, 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Magload on 4/30/2017, 12:31 pm

Thanks Clarence that is good to know.

Zane I have a old scuba tank but it is way beyond it's certification date.  I don't want to have to buy all the adapters and drive 50 miles to get it filled.  That's if it passes certification.  Don
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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Rob9mmshooter on 4/30/2017, 3:08 pm

I have a LP50 Compact and a Sius Target.  I use a standard scuba tank to fill the cylinders which will go very close to 200 bar for a lot of fills before dropping off.  If I remember correctly I shot over 15000 pellets with the first two fills of the cylinder which cost $4.00 each.  Actually since I fill way before it is down too far the second fill the guy did for nothing.  I use either a 3.5 or 4.0 lb trigger and the 45 type grip on the pistol.  I shoot it both with open sights has helped my service pistol scores.  Also shoot some with a dot sight on a mount purchased from a outfit in Canada.  Not cheap setup but it has helped me a lot.  I use the Bullseye timing app to get the time interval and generally only shoot rapid fires sequences.  I have found that with a lot of use I have subconsciously gotten 10 seconds in my head so that without thinking about it I "know" where I am in the 10 seconds and make better use of the time available.  Once you absorb the capital outlay it is a cheap way for a lot of practice.  The Sius software will use the 25 or 50yd NRA target scoring and can be sized to score right at the distance you are shooting with the AP.  Shooting the 50 feels just like shooting the 50 out doors if you scale it properly.  Very useful setup just not cheap.  A lot like dry firing but with scores.  Lack of recoil is really no issue unless you are recoil sensitive then maybe not quite as useful.

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Mac2 on 4/30/2017, 7:09 pm

Don:   At our age, the use of a hand pump may defeat the whole endeavor - lots of work.   Additional complication is the age of the tank you have as most Scuba places will not fill tanks over ten years old.  However, motorized pumps do exist.  Some require a "pre-pump."  I bought a motorized pump when I thought that was going to be the only way to "fill" the 300 bar tank.  

Others have provided good advice and experience that would have saved me a lot - had I known.  Do add to store of knowledge when you can.  Mac

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Wobbley on 4/30/2017, 11:38 pm

For those not near a place that fills SCUBA tanks, does anyone know if straight nitrogen would work?  Welding supply places have tanks of that stuff.

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Boris_La on 5/1/2017, 12:42 am

Wobbley wrote:For those not near a place that fills SCUBA tanks, does anyone know if straight nitrogen would work?  Welding supply places have tanks of that stuff.
You must use regulator and reduce pressure from 6000 psi to safer 3000psi or 4500psi depend on the airgun. Filling straight from 6000psi nitro tank is a recipe for disaster. Gas itself is fine to use instead of compressed air if you deal safely with pressure. Since you don't have heavier gas molecules mixed in, your pellet velocity will be slightly higher, but can be adjusted in many airguns.

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by mprince on 5/6/2017, 7:25 pm

My shop chief lets me keep a Creedmoor portable airgun range in an unused hallway.  I shoot 10M after work for just 30 shots.  It takes me 25 strokes on a Gehman floor pump to get it back to a full 200 Bar.  I don't think I have shot it more than 60 shots in one sitting but it never dropped below 100 Bar.  I got my LP50 in January and the 5 shot magazines have worked flawlessly. 

I had mounted an ultradot 1", but am currently using it with iron sights only.  I really only practice slow fire, but have shot it sustained a few times and it worked quite well.  It was a huge amount of money, but I don't regret it.

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by Boris_La on 5/6/2017, 10:12 pm

mprince wrote:My shop chief lets me keep a Creedmoor portable airgun range in an unused hallway.  I shoot 10M after work for just 30 shots.  It takes me 25 strokes on a Gehman floor pump to get it back to a full 200 Bar.  I don't think I have shot it more than 60 shots in one sitting but it never dropped below 100 Bar.  I got my LP50 in January and the 5 shot magazines have worked flawlessly. 

I had mounted an ultradot 1", but am currently using it with iron sights only.  I really only practice slow fire, but have shot it sustained a few times and it worked quite well.  It was a huge amount of money, but I don't regret it.
I pump with Hill pump my LP and few air rifles with smaller, removable cylinders. Larger air guns i fill from carbon wraped tanks. LP cylinder takes abour 45-50 pumps to refill. Good for 130-150 shots.

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Re: Anyone practice timed & rapid fire with a LP50?

Post by willnewton on 5/7/2017, 8:27 am

I use a Hill pump on my LP50.  Yep, it is NOT an effortless affair and will tire you out some.  I am a big dude and deal with it OK (but it ain't fun to start from 0 bar).  I can see that someone with a slighter build or where youth and good health are not on your side, would find it a more serious effort.

That being said, you may need to schedule a time to pump cylinders way before your shooting time or pump them after your shooting is done, so they will ready for next time.

I might pump 50 bar and take a break, continue shooting on the alternate cylinder and alternate back and forth.  This is a nice way to get a break and burn off some twitchiness without getting winded.

My main recommendation would be to buy two cylinders or maybe even a third if you shoot a lot and use a hand pump. That way you'll not have to pump as much while shooting.

Do I wish I had a tank? Yep.
Am I burning to run out and get one? No.
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