52-2 dirty chamber

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52-2 dirty chamber

Post by Magload on 5/1/2017, 6:38 pm

I need a recomendation for a chamber brush or another cleaning method for this 38 SPL.  I took the DIY rebuilt pistol to the range today for live fire testing.  Some rounds, most, didn't want to go into battery with out a thumb assist on the back of the slide.  Just a easy touch was all it took.  Now I know these that worked before but I just reloaded this batch. Maybe a setting on the 550B had changed but not likely.  Came home and did a plunk test and they were only going in 3/4 of the way.  Took a look at the chamber and boy did it look bad.  I cleaned it using Hoppe's No 9 letting it soak a long time and cleaning with 45 ACP RamRodz soaked in Hoppe's.  They look like a huge Q Tip on a bamboo stick.  They fit the chamber very tight and now the loads drop in fine.  The chamber still needs a little more cleaning.  should I stick with this method, buy a brush, or drop it in the Ultra sound?  Don
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by C.Perkins on 5/1/2017, 7:07 pm

Don;

What is your load with all spec's:
Brass manufacture ?
Brass overall length ?
Lead bullets used ?
Cartridge overall length ?
Crimp diameter ?
Primers used ?
Powder used ?

What is the weight of your recoil spring, new or used and how old ?

Clarence
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by Wobbley on 5/1/2017, 8:28 pm

Soak the barrel in Berryman ChemTool.  Overnite should do it.  Then wipe it down with a lite oil.

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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by Magload on 5/1/2017, 8:46 pm

C.Perkins wrote:Don;

What is your load with all spec's:
Brass manufacture ?
Brass overall length ?
Lead bullets used ?
Cartridge overall length ?
Crimp diameter ?
Primers used ?
Powder used ?

What is the weight of your recoil spring, new or used and how old ?

Clarence
I just finished making all these measurements and typing them in and hit send and the post went off to never never land.  so here goes again.

What is your load with all spec's:  
Brass manufacture ?   Assorted
Brass overall length ?  1.135 to 1.157 with most being 1.142"   I measure and trim all rifle but have never trimmed pistol brass.
Lead bullets used ?     Zero 148gr HBWC
Cartridge overall length ?  1.152"
Crimp diameter ?          .369"
Primers used ?             WSP  
Powder used ?             BE

What is the weight of your recoil spring, new or used and how old ?  This I have no clue as I don't have a good way to measure it.  I made a test piece for 1911s but not for this gun.  I suspect this is the spring that came with the gun back when it was new.  The serial is a prefix A and I think that was early 70s.  The gun cycled fine when the chamber was clean and cycles fine after a thumb assist on rounds that needs it.   Don
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by C.Perkins on 5/1/2017, 8:57 pm

A little thumb pressure to close the slide into battery is your first clue to solving your problem.
Try a new 8# recoil spring first.
All I use is Wolff and still have two new in the package for backup.
Chambers get dirty, plunk test is for clean chamber and ammo.
There is a balance.

Good luck with your m52
Clarence
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by Magload on 5/1/2017, 9:08 pm

C.Perkins wrote:A little thumb pressure to close the slide into battery is your first clue to solving your problem.
Try a new 8# recoil spring first.
All I use is Wolff and still have two new in the package for backup.
Chambers get dirty, plunk test is for clean chamber and ammo.
There is a balance.

Good luck with your m52
Clarence
Thanks Clarence I like the gun and shot it petty good today.  I will get some new 8# springs on order.  This BE is dirty in my opinion and I have thought about switching to WST.  I have 16 pounds of CFE pistol and use it for most of my other loads.  have used it in 38 SPL and 45 ACP but not sure if it will work for these light BE loads.  I was using TiteGroup when I started loading for handguns but it is petty hot. Still have a lot of it as it was all you could find around here during the powder shortage.  One LGS was getting $42 a pound for all powders.  They were the only ones that had any. Don
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by orpheoet on 5/2/2017, 4:42 am

I use WST for everything Bullseye related. 2.7gr for my 52-2. Much cleaner.
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by Virgil Kane on 5/2/2017, 7:26 am

My M-52 does the same thing.  Can't get through a 900 without a lot of build-up of lead and carbon in the chamber area.  Mine has a very tight bore and a very generous chamber, empty cases fired in my M-52 will NOT chamber in any of my other 38 Special guns.  At the pressures that we shoot in these guns IMHO it's a problem of the case not expanding properly/fully  before the bullet makes it's way down the barrel.  Because of this we get some blow-by and it gunks up the chamber.

Mr Perkins has much more experience that I and I would take his advice on what works for the M-52.  However I do know that when I do NOT full length re-size my cases that I shoot in my M-52 ( just de-cap and expand case mouth) I get less build-up of these deposits in the chamber.  I also crimp to .372 and never more for all my 38 WC loads which has helped tremendously with accuracy.  I hate the fact that I don't FL re-size these cases and was always expecting an alibi but so far it's worked well for me the little bit I shoot my M-52

The above can be a PITA when you have several 38 firearms and try to keep the brass specific to one gun. For that reason I only shoot Remington brass in my M-52 and all my other 38's get mixed brass. Much easier to separate this way.

This is what happens in my M-52 whether I shoot it with iron sights or with a 30mm UltraDot on a BME mount.

YMMV


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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by Magload on 5/2/2017, 12:45 pm

You know I was thinking it looked like lead buildup but wondered how that could be.  The bore is clean but you have answered that question.  I have always shot plated or High tech coated so lead was never a problem.  When I started shooting BE the end of last year I found the bullets that shot one hole groups at 10 yards were lucky to hit the target at 50yds with a Ransom rest.  So that was the start of me using lead.  These HBWCs is also a new thing as I am on my first box of 500.  Learn something everyday.  This forum is good for that.  Don
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by C.Perkins on 5/2/2017, 4:07 pm

Never have had an issue with dirty chamber or leading issues in my M52's.
Only two issues I did have were recoil spring getting a bit weak and COAL a tad too long.

I do full length resize because I discovered that if you look just above the rim of the spent casing that there is a small bulge, all three of my M52's had it to one extent or another.
This is where the case is unsupported at the feed ramp but looking more closely and without any high speed footage of an M52 firing my guess is that there is still just enough pressure built up that the case is coming out of battery and the very small bulge occurs and pressure drops off and thus spews a bit more fouling into the chamber area.(this is just my opinion and have no data to back it up)
The bulge can be seen if you look closely and is measurable with calipers/mic.

Been using the classic 2.7-2.8gr of Bullseye for years.
Sure the chamber area gets dirty, so do all my other guns using bullseye but no issues ever come of it.
Just started working with 2.7-2.9gr of WST to see what all the noise was about.
Chamber still gets dirty, maybe I could say that it is a cleaner dirty ?(but dirty just the same)

As noted above I do full length resize, use an "M"die, load my powder, seat the HBWC almost half way into the case with my fingers, use a seating die that seats on the shoulder with first stroke seating bullet 3/4 the way, then let up and spin the case 180 degrees and full stroke seating it the rest of the way. Final step goes to the Lee FCD which gives my desired .370" roll crimp.
COAL in my notes state 1.070" +0/-.010"
I initially trim my new/once fired brass to 1.130" and never touch it after cause they do not grow that much over 1.145" which gives me .020" of lead shoulder proud of the brass that the roll crimp just rolls into the exposed shoulder(I get a lead/rolled shoulder to run up the feed way).

This may be overkill to some, but I enjoy it.
By the way it is all done one at a time in lots of 100 or so during a session off a single stage Lee press, primers seated by hand and made sure to be .007" below flush of case and powder is weighed and hand trickled on a balance beam scale.

I detail clean my M52 once a year.
Pull a 9mm bore snake through it when I think about it.

YMMV;
Clarence
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

Post by Magload on 5/2/2017, 6:15 pm

I shot it today and after the chamber cleaning it cycled just fine.  I didn't shoot the gun very well today I am thinking I don't like the grip mounted scope mount.  it places the Matchdot very high above the bore and that makes keeping the gun level a real chore. A little cant is amplified when the dot is that high.  I might go back to the Fastfire dot in the rear sight slot but outdoors in bright sun that might not work well.

8# recoil springs are on order I ordered a couple.  Don
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Re: 52-2 dirty chamber

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