Limp...finger?

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Limp...finger?

Post by mspingeld on Tue May 09, 2017 7:29 am

My 45 has recently been doubling. The manufacturer, highly respected and a bullseye shooter, was very concerned. I sent him the gun and he thoroughly checked the sear, sear spring, disconnector, hammer and more but all were good and he couldn't replicate the issue. He did say there was too much overtravel in the trigger and that could sometimes cause doubling. I got the gun back and it's still happening. He suggested having another shooter fire the gun. I couldn't believe it, no doubling.

I texted him from the range (about 8:30pm) and he called right back. He said he didn't want to say it because customers might think he was making excuses for his work but it's not uncommon for shooters, even shooters with some experience, to relax too much on the trigger.

He suggested a drill; fire a round but focus on keeping the trigger all the way back for a few seconds. Recover and feel the reset and hold it there for a few seconds. Then fire another round. It was getting late but I put about 30 more rounds through and, lo & behold, no doubling (ok, once but at least I felt the trigger).

Has anybody else experienced this? I never really feel my reset while shooting. What's proper reset technique?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.


Last edited by mspingeld on Tue May 09, 2017 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total

mspingeld

Posts : 282
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 57
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Chris Miceli on Tue May 09, 2017 7:33 am

i always feel my trigger reset, i reset in recoil.
avatar
Chris Miceli

Posts : 1612
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Haymarket, VA

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by weber1b on Tue May 09, 2017 8:40 am

I have seen it with another person's gun. He was firing it in training, no issues. Someone else picked it up and it went auto. Twice. I tried the gun, no issues. The finger can make a difference.

weber1b

Posts : 209
Join date : 2015-10-03
Location : Naperville, IL

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by willnewton on Tue May 09, 2017 8:58 am

Gun doubles.

You get told to hold it right or the gun will double.

Uhhhh, trying to think of situations where that is a proper solution.

I keep coming up with ZERO.
avatar
willnewton

Posts : 258
Join date : 2016-07-24
Location : Eastern NC

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by mspingeld on Tue May 09, 2017 9:07 am

willnewton: I felt the same way but search for trigger bounce or trigger bump and you'll find I'm not the only one who's had the issue. The first step is ALWAYS to check the gun but, in this case, I'm convinced it's me. I did NOT want to believe it but, when it didn't happen to my friend and when I could prevent it by focusing on the issue, it seems to be shooter error.

Loose finger, slide goes forward, finger bounces off and back on. So fast, I didn't realize it was happening.

p.s. It's not so much how I hold the gun but how I manipulate the trigger.

mspingeld

Posts : 282
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 57
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Magload on Tue May 09, 2017 10:05 am

Hey no one can say you are not keeping the trigger moving.  Don
avatar
Magload

Posts : 1070
Join date : 2016-11-18
Age : 71
Location : NE Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by mspingeld on Tue May 09, 2017 10:06 am

But seriously folks...

mspingeld

Posts : 282
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 57
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by weber1b on Tue May 09, 2017 10:13 am

weber1b wrote:I have seen it with another person's gun. He was firing it in training, no issues. Someone else picked it up and it went auto. Twice. I tried the gun, no issues. The finger can make a difference.
BTW, even though it did not go auto on him, he had the gun checked out by the manufacturer so it wouldn't happen to anyone again.

weber1b

Posts : 209
Join date : 2015-10-03
Location : Naperville, IL

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by jglenn21 on Tue May 09, 2017 10:17 am

I'm with Chris, I always like to feel the trigger reset as part of the next shot's process
avatar
jglenn21

Posts : 1014
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 69
Location : monroe , ga

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by mspingeld on Tue May 09, 2017 10:18 am

During recoil? During recovery? After realigning with target?

mspingeld

Posts : 282
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 57
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by jglenn21 on Tue May 09, 2017 10:23 am

for me it's part of recovery as I restart the trigger
avatar
jglenn21

Posts : 1014
Join date : 2015-04-07
Age : 69
Location : monroe , ga

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Chris Miceli on Tue May 09, 2017 10:43 am

mspingeld wrote:During recoil? During recovery? After realigning with target?
I say during recoil, but i'm pretty sure i can't move my finger as fast as a slide cycle. So somewhere from boom and when my arm is up and the dot is off the aiming black i can feel myself resetting the trigger.... then as you often hear get the trigger moving as you come into the aiming area.
avatar
Chris Miceli

Posts : 1612
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Haymarket, VA

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by daflorc on Tue May 09, 2017 3:23 pm

Loose finger, or no follow through combined with light trigger pull weight and recoil from a 45 can cause doubling. What's your pull weight on that gun? Do you have a crisp trigger where you're inching the sear off the hammer hooks, or do you have a confident, uninterrupted trigger pull?

daflorc

Posts : 156
Join date : 2016-12-30
Age : 33
Location : Naperville

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by mspingeld on Tue May 09, 2017 3:29 pm

A little more than 3-1/2 lbs. it's a short roll. I'm now confident the issue is  loose finger/weak follow through. I think working the drill in the op and being mentally aware of reset should fix this. 

Getting mixed replies on where in the process reset should occur. Hoping for a concensus.

mspingeld

Posts : 282
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 57
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Magload on Tue May 09, 2017 4:38 pm

On many striker fire guns you can hear the reset and feel it in your finger.  I just checker my 1911s with KC triggers and I can hear and feel the reset.  During dryfire pull the trigger and hold it back.  while holding it back cycle the clile cocking the gun.  Now very slowly let the trigger forward and you will at least feel it reset and probably hear it.  In action shooting that is the point you stop at for the next shot but I don't know about this BE.  Don
avatar
Magload

Posts : 1070
Join date : 2016-11-18
Age : 71
Location : NE Florida

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Wobbley on Tue May 09, 2017 8:24 pm

mspingeld wrote:A little more than 3-1/2 lbs. it's a short roll. I'm now confident the issue is  loose finger/weak follow through. I think working the drill in the op and being mentally aware of reset should fix this. 

Getting mixed replies on where in the process reset should occur. Hoping for a Consensus.
Don't expect a consensus.  Just find a trigger control that works for you.

Wobbley

Posts : 1115
Join date : 2015-02-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Chris Miceli on Tue May 09, 2017 8:28 pm

Magload wrote:On many striker fire guns you can hear the reset and feel it in your finger.  I just checker my 1911s with KC triggers and I can hear and feel the reset.  During dryfire pull the trigger and hold it back.  while holding it back cycle the clile cocking the gun.  Now very slowly let the trigger forward and you will at least feel it reset and probably hear it.  In action shooting that is the point you stop at for the next shot but I don't know about this BE.  Don
That's where I stop and get back to mashing that trigger
avatar
Chris Miceli

Posts : 1612
Join date : 2015-10-27
Location : Haymarket, VA

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by tjpepitone on Tue May 09, 2017 8:32 pm

Are you using anatomical grips? If so, how tightly do you keep the shelf adjusted?

tjpepitone

Posts : 28
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Jersey Shore

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by mspingeld on Tue May 09, 2017 8:37 pm

That's what changed!!! I shot anatomical grips for a long time but recently went back to slabs. Shot 3 problem free matches with slabs but the last 2 matches were not problem free.

mspingeld

Posts : 282
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 57
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Jon Eulette on Tue May 09, 2017 8:49 pm

What brand pistol and what brand of trigger? What hammer/sear combination? It's very common if you have too much overtravel on some pistols that it will double. You have an expert classification so I am surprised its only happening to you.....but ;l)
Jon
avatar
Jon Eulette

Posts : 1739
Join date : 2013-04-15
Location : Southern Kalifornia

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by mspingeld on Tue May 09, 2017 8:57 pm

Jon, It's an Accuracy X. I believe it's a Cylinder & Slide trigger. They adjusted the over-travel before shipping the pistol back.

As I said earlier, I think working the drill, as suggested, and being mentally aware of reset should fix this but I'm open to all ideas.

If the doubles were both X's I wouldn't be so concerned.

mspingeld

Posts : 282
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 57
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Tim:H11 on Tue May 09, 2017 10:47 pm

I come from a slow fire pistol shooting background so my learning and practice has always been to press the trigger and hold it to the rear through out the shot, and the recoil. Once the stops it's recoil away from the target, or let's say the gun is at it's peak then I reset. For slow fire it ends there. In sustained fire when the gun is at its peak I reset and then start recovery and trigger press at the same time. Dot hits center, bang, recoil, reset, recover, etc.
avatar
Tim:H11

Posts : 1004
Join date : 2015-11-04
Age : 29
Location : TN

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by BE Mike on Wed May 10, 2017 9:20 am

I'm certainly no gunsmith but I don't like a gun that doubles even if someone tells me that it is me. I would be inclined to have a new trigger job that might include a new hammer and sear. You don't need any nagging doubts about a pistol's reliability during a match
avatar
BE Mike

Posts : 1402
Join date : 2011-07-29
Location : Indiana

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by 12XNPC on Wed May 10, 2017 9:35 am

It very well can be shooter error.
I have several times tried to mimick a double or malfunction that one has been experiencing without ever being able to do it.

Are you shooting a roll trigger? I know I felt your trigger when we met I can't remember how it felt.

What is the reset like? There may need an adjustment to your reset.

When it doubles, where is the gun pointing, up over the target or is back on target but shooting before you pick up the sights again?

Here's the good thing. You listened, you are in fact moving the trigger before the sights get back on target, which is great.

Dry fire without looking at the sights NO AIMING just feel the trigger. After the hammer falls hold the trigger back consciously and deliberately reset the trigger and feel the reset. Do it a lot.
DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT aim or shoot and hold the trigger back and wait til your sights are on target to reset. You nights as well just shoot 4 rounds in rapid fire and hope for the best if you do that.

Personal opinion, your just a little over anxious to get the trigger moving before the sights are back on target. Which is a great a problem to have. The biggest problem I have is getting folks to move the trigger before perfect sight alignment/sight picture is obtained.
avatar
12XNPC

Posts : 11
Join date : 2017-04-16

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by mspingeld on Wed May 10, 2017 9:48 am

Thanks Brian!
1-The pistol has a short roll.
2-There was too much over-travel when I sent it back and has been adjusted. Now the reset is pretty short.
3-Second shot is in the clouds. If it was on target I might not complain so much Wink
4-Yes, I've been consciously working on moving the trigger before back on target. No more jerking!

I assume you mean, dry fire, hold the trigger back, rack the slide, then feel the reset? and yes, I think you're right. I'm just a little over anxious. I never felt the reset while shooting in the past but I will make sure I feel it now. Just have to get the timing right. Reset while coming back to the black?

mspingeld

Posts : 282
Join date : 2014-04-19
Age : 57
Location : New Jersey

Back to top Go down

Re: Limp...finger?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum