Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

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Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Jon Math on Tue May 09, 2017 1:30 pm

I’ve come to precision pistol shooting from ISSF events where I had shot with a very side on stance for decades.  As I’ve aged the flexibility in my neck is not what it was so to some extent I look out the corner of my eye at my sights.  I wear Champion Olympic type frames with a blinder and the single eye piece that I can adjust and angle to keep square to the target and my eyes so my off kilter head position has not been a problem.  Until now.  I recently joined a shooting club that requires me to wear full coverage eye wear at all times. Being older I need some correction in my lenses. 

I have tried wearing pilot style frames with prescription lenses.  I look through them at such an angle I get distortions and am looking out the side of the frames.  I tried a pair of wrap-a-round clear safety glasses (Wiely X’s) with my Olympics over them which might have worked except my nose is not big enough for both of the nose pieces and the Olympics were constantly sliding down my nose.

I’ve tried opening up my stance, but that just introduces an earth quake like wobble to my hold.  Short of finding a new club to shoot at does anyone have any suggestions?   
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Magload on Tue May 09, 2017 1:44 pm

Jon I wear those fitover sunglasses  and if they slip off the nose try a strap on them just tight enough so they don't slip. Both ranges I belong to require safety glasses but as long as your prescription glasses has poly lenses they count. Don
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Jon Math on Tue May 09, 2017 2:03 pm

That’s a great idea!  I’d almost need a three point strap like a catcher’s mask has.
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by LenV on Tue May 09, 2017 2:04 pm

Jon, I was having similar problem. I wear glasses for reading but don't need anything for distance. I went to my eye doctor and had my Gamo with me. He set me up with 2 pair of glasses. The first pair are trifocals and I wear them all the time. We adjusted the middle lens to bring the front sight in focus when in shooting position. These work so well I wear them all the time and find my truck dash actually in focus. The second pair would give you headaches if not on range. Tinted yellow the right lens is 100% the same as the middle lens as the tri's. I don't have to wiggle my head to find the "right" spot. The left lens are bifocals and let me score and see at distance. They work pretty neat.

Len
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Jon Math on Tue May 09, 2017 2:15 pm

Getting old sucks!  I’ve been told a reverse bi focal with the high correction on the top edge is nice for shooting you find the target with the wide field and just lower your head a tad to get on the sights.  My distance vision is great even my front sight is reasonable to see if the lighting is good; but more and more often it is not good, which is telling me it is more than likely the eyes not the light source Very Happy

I’d love to bring my pistol into the eye doctors, but here just pointing your finger and holding your thumb up to form the resemblance of a pistol to play cops and robbers in the playground has gotten kids suspended from schools. 
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Magload on Tue May 09, 2017 2:20 pm

I also have couputer glasses that the focal length is right for the ftont sight but the target is so out of focus I can't hardly see it.  Plus you got to swap glasses if you want to look at anything that is not at front sight distance give or take 6" either way.  So I bought clipon flip ups in clear and a pait in yellow fhat have on correction and use a pinhole stickon, EyePal I think.  Covered the off eye with masking tape.  with the EyePal the sights are in sharp focus along with the target.  These work good till I flip them up and try to look in the spotting scope and hit the lens.  

I don't think you need three straps I just used the one around the back of the head when I played racketball and fishing so I didn't loose the glasses overboard looking down.  Don
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Magload on Tue May 09, 2017 2:22 pm

Jon Math wrote:Getting old sucks!  I’ve been told a reverse bi focal with the high correction on the top edge is nice for shooting you find the target with the wide field and just lower your head a tad to get on the sights.  My distance vision is great even my front sight is reasonable to see if the lighting is good; but more and more often it is not good, which is telling me it is more than likely the eyes not the light source Very Happy

I’d love to bring my pistol into the eye doctors, but here just pointing your finger and holding your thumb up to form the resemblance of a pistol to play cops and robbers in the playground has gotten kids suspended from schools. 

You can just take a measurement at home that is all they need.  Don
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Jon Math on Tue May 09, 2017 2:35 pm

Before I started using a blinder I was using tape.  I used the frosted “scotch” brand.  I found that it allowed a goodly amount of light through but occluded vision so my eyes dilated correctly but my left eye dominance was solved as I’m a right handed shooter.

I also found I needed only a small patch of tape (about ¾” in my case)to blind the non-aiming eye.
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Blsi2600 on Tue May 09, 2017 4:15 pm

Zennioptical will make what you want for cheap.  $25 to $35 for single vision.  I use frame #418911.  10 days to two weeks delivery.

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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Dr.Don on Tue May 09, 2017 8:17 pm

I haven't been to a shooting club in many years that does not require eye protection.  It is standard everywhere.
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Magload on Tue May 09, 2017 8:43 pm

Here is why it is important to wear eye protection.

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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Wobbley on Tue May 09, 2017 8:47 pm

Ouch!  Any idea on cause?

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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Jon Math on Wed May 10, 2017 6:47 am

I'm not complaining about the eye protection, I've always worn it even when hunting, ear protection (plugs and muffs together)too.  I just cannot use the system I have always used at this new club without some modifications.
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by orpheoet on Wed May 10, 2017 7:24 am

I was just reading that excessive crimp can cause this because the case actually goes into the rifling causing a pressure spike. One possible explanation...



Magload wrote:Here is why it is important to wear eye protection.

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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Virgil Kane on Wed May 10, 2017 8:28 am

Are your glasses single vision or bifocal ?

When I had to start wear bifocals I went with progressive lenses and had the same trouble.  For me to make  progressive lenses work I had to point my nose at what I was looking at otherwise there was terrible distortion. I could not look out of the corner of my eyes at something and expect it to be in focus or not distorted, I had to look directly at it.    I went to the old style bifocal lenses (yep they make you look old) because you can look out of the side of the prescription more without distortion.  So for me it's either buy different single vision glasses for different distances or just use the old style bifocals. Either ones I can look out of the sides of the glasses and still have a distortion free look at what I want to see.  No more progressive lenses for me.


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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Jon Math on Wed May 10, 2017 8:39 am

Currently I wear bi-focals with zero correction in the main field just for protection and the correction in the bifocal area for reading.  I’m not a fan of progressive lenses either.
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by mikemyers on Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:19 pm

Two quick notes.

To get a prescription for the distance to your front sight, at home, hold the gun up in front of you, and have someone measure the distance from your eye to the front sight.  Then, when you go to get the prescription for your glasses, just bring your tape measure, and use it so the "chart" that's normally used for reading glasses is at the proper distance from your eye as the front sight.

To avoid lots of confusion, just say it's for your "target glasses", and don't elaborate.


To Virgil Kane, you can now purchase progressive lenses designed so you don't get to see all that distortion.  They cost more, but they are far more comfortable.  Useful link:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PMktHSspq4


For me, I brought the prescription for my "target" glasses back home, and while I already had a pair of glasses made (polycarbonate lenses) for shooting, as soon as I get settled, I want to buy a pair of glasses made for target shooting, with wrap-around protection.
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by xmastershooter on Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:03 am

If I may, I'd like to offer additional insights to the "best" shooting Rx after examining hundreds of shooting patients over a span of more than a decade. 

First, the eyes may not necessarily behave the same outdoors as they do indoors in the exam room of your eye doctor.  Pupil size undoubtedly changes.

Second, I've found that the best shooting Rx for each individual may not relate to their age, and therefore their front sight distance to their eye, commonly known as their reading Rx or computer Rx.  The most striking examples was from a national record holder who is not presbyopic and a national champion who was 59 years old when he replied to my survey.

Third, "any" plus power lens over the distance Rx will help focus the front sight, but fatigue factor may develop and cause a shift in final Rx power.  I see this all the time in the majority of my patients.  The first lens shown, although may sharpen the front sight initially, usually is not the best Rx.

Fourth, I always show my shooting patients how well they see the front sight in relationship to the bull.  This is where the outdoor lighting is important to properly evaluate the final Rx.  Some want a little definition to the bull while others prefer a very blurry bull and this must be taken into consideration.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by TAB on Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:11 am

The ESS ICE series offers full wrap protection with capability to support a prescription insert.
http://www.esseyepro.com/ICE-Series_18_category.html

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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by mikemyers on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:37 am

xmastershooter wrote:If I may, I'd like to offer additional insights to the "best" shooting Rx after examining hundreds of shooting patients over a span of more than a decade.  ........     the eyes may not necessarily behave the same outdoors as they do indoors in the exam room of your eye doctor.  Pupil size undoubtedly changes.   .........    I've found that the best shooting Rx for each individual may not relate to their age, and therefore their front sight distance to their eye, commonly known as their reading Rx or computer Rx.  .........     "any" plus power lens over the distance Rx will help focus the front sight, but fatigue factor may develop and cause a shift in final Rx power.  .........    I always show my shooting patients how well they see the front sight in relationship to the bull.  .........     Some want a little definition to the bull while others prefer a very blurry bull and this must be taken into consideration.....
I have a few technical questions.

I realize how the pupil size will change, depending on the amount of light, but how would that affect any prescription you were about to write?   Let's say you were giving a patient a prescription for shooting glasses, for a front sight to eye distance of 24".  Presumably you would hold a card with words or numbers 24" in front of the patient, and select the prescription to give that patient the best view of the card.  Why might you do anything differently?

Regarding the definition of the "bull" vs. the front sight, everything I have read and been told leads to getting the sharpest possible definition of the front sight, and if the bull/target becomes a blur, that is fine.  I can understand where people might want the target to be sharper, but as a bullseye shooter, why would you do anything to make the target sharper, at the expense of losing some clarity of the front sight?

I'm not in any of these categories any more - I used to be presbyopic, meaning I couldn't focus on the front sight without using glasses, and now that my cataract surgery is completed, my eyes don't focus at all - I need my glasses to make something close look sharp, and I had one set of glasses made for the specific distance to the front sight.  I suspect there are a lot of people in this forum with similar issues - what, if anything, would you do differently to give them the best possible vision for bullseye shooting?

(I am completely excluding convenience, or how often they need to put on different glasses to see the target, or to see something at reading distance.)
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by Jon Math on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:59 am

A part of my issue is that I firmly believe that somewhere in my early life I had left handedness beaten out of me.  Except for writing and shooting I do everything else left handed.  And I’m also strongly left eye dominant. Now as I have aged my eyes need correction, I have always used a blinder where ever I could.  I have the ISSF glasses set up with one lens set to bring the front sight into crystal clear focus, the left eye has no lens just the flip up blinder.  I wear a set of warp around glasses under the Olympic frames.  Looks strange but my vision is prefect and my eyes well protected—that is most important to me.  I’d rather have an eye needing vision correction than a glass one.   
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by mikemyers on Fri Jun 30, 2017 1:39 pm

A lot of useful information can be found here:
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2015/8/31/shooting-with-corrective-lenses/


Jon, as we age, there are a lot of things that may change and require correction.  Two of the most common are losing the ability to focus, and needing to change one's prescription for glasses.

(Like I said up above somewhere, I do volunteer work at Aravind Eye Hospital in India.  Among other things I've learned, is that there is no substitute for regular eye checkups from an ophthalmologist (not optometrist).  There are things that they can find early, and either cure or control, that if left unchecked can permanently damage a person's vision.  High blood pressure can lead to Glaucoma, which can lead to permanent loss of vision.  Regular checkups can identify the problem before the damage is done.)
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by xmastershooter on Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:47 pm

Mikemyers, since you have such a low opinion of my profession, I will not address your questions nor will I be part of any future discussions when you're involved.

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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by mikemyers on Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:49 pm

Sorry, I didn't realize anything I wrote implied a low opinion of your profession, and for that matter, I'm not sure what your profession is?  I'm sorry if I wrote something that offended you, and at this moment in time, I have no idea what that might have been.

The only thing I can think of is when I wrote "there is no substitute for regular eye checkups from an ophthalmologist (not optometrist)."  The first is a doctor, with medical degree, specializing in eyes.  The second I think of as someone who prescribes glasses.  Back when I used to see optometrists, I don't remember ever getting a fundus exam for the retina, or the blood pressure test for Glaucoma, or the biometry test, and for that matter, I don't remember any of them even dilating my eyes.  

I don't know what I wrote that would make you feel I have a low opinion of your profession, I just re-read what I wrote, and I mostly had questions for you.  I read where you prescribed glasses, but this is done by eye doctors and also by optometrists - meaning I still have no idea what your profession is.

Whatever I wrote that bothers you, all I can say is nothing was intended to give a low impression of anyone.  If I worded it incorrectly, I apologize.  I didn't mean to.
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Re: Protective Eyeware vs. Correction?

Post by jglenn21 on Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:26 pm

As a son of an Optometrist, I'd suggest you look at what they can do these days here in the US.. They test for Glaucoma and in many States can dilate your eyes as part of their exam..   An OD has a Bachelor degree and four more years of Optometry school to earn his/her doctorate degree.

the main difference is an ophthalmologist  can perform surgery..


Last edited by jglenn21 on Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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