DR Ammo Brass

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DR Ammo Brass

Post by xmastershooter on 5/10/2017, 9:43 am

I've been shooting NSK Dr ammo but now ready to load my own.  I've kept all the mixed brass and would like to know if there is any advantage of sorting them.  I have Federal, Winchester, R-P, CBC, and W-W brass. Maybe someone can tell me what R-P, CBC and W-W stands for.  I have the Zero 158gr SWC and most likely use WST powder.  From reading past postings, 3.1-3.2gr seems to be a good load.

Norman

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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by AllAces on 5/10/2017, 10:03 am

I no longer sort brass for practice ammo.  I do use Starline brass for match ammo and keep it separated from all other.  Pick one brass, say Federal or Winchester and make it your match brass. Use all the rest for practice.
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by jglenn21 on 5/10/2017, 10:09 am

R-P = Remington Peters

CBC = Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos  (Brazil company)

W-W  = Winchester Western


Although I am a Winchester fan I use R-P brass for my 38 reloads
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by bdas on 5/10/2017, 12:30 pm

xmastershooter wrote:I've been shooting NSK Dr ammo but now ready to load my own.  I've kept all the mixed brass and would like to know if there is any advantage of sorting them.  I have Federal, Winchester, R-P, CBC, and W-W brass. Maybe someone can tell me what R-P, CBC and W-W stands for.  I have the Zero 158gr SWC and most likely use WST powder.  From reading past postings, 3.1-3.2gr seems to be a good load.

Norman

I started out reloading the same way... I had brass from ammo I had purchased from a commercial reloader (but with 45). So, I had a wide variety of head stamps, and the firing count of each casing was unknown and probably varied widely.  For the most part, this worked out fine for a while, especially as I was learning to reload.  I had some minor issues with getting primers to fit and you have to accept more variation in things like seating depth and crimp measurements, but nothing horrible.  As I got better at both shooting and reloading, I thought about sorting them by headstamp, and then attempting to sort each headstamp by either length and/or apparent wear level.  One concern with that was having many small "lots", and not many "lots" big enough to be useful.  

And then it occurred to me that any advantage that might be gained by doing those kinds of things could be far surpassed by purchasing a 1000 new Starline casings and tracking how many times they have been fired.  I have a fairly limited budget for bullseye, but it was absolutely worth it to me, to remove so many of the brass-related variables (length, thickness, primer pocket diameter, etc.), and not wonder if that un-called flyer might have been brass-related (due to reloading issues, gun/fit issues, or ballistics issues).  Consistency matters.  YMMV.

For identifying headstamps, the best resource I've found is: http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page=headstampcodes

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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Tim:H11 on 5/10/2017, 1:26 pm

I shoot 90-93 at 50 with mixed casings in my S&W 14-3. I don't get picky for "match brass". I don't have the time for such a headache. I don't measure length either. Load and shoot. Load and shoot. Powder charge, bullet, CRIMP... especially crimp are more important. Unless you can hold and shoot 10 ring at 50 I don't see it making too big of a difference. 

I can shoot into the low 90's with a borrowed 45 as well. Again mixed brass. Unless I'm a ransom rest I'm not going to fuss with it.
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by jglenn21 on 5/10/2017, 3:24 pm

With WST I use 3.0 at the SL and 3.3 at the LL.

Still hard to beat Remington Target SWC  at the LL
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Tim:H11 on 5/10/2017, 3:44 pm

3.2gr of Bullseye, 158gr LRN Lee Tumble Lube (Micro Grove) Bullet Mold.
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by rreid on 5/10/2017, 8:08 pm

Norman, I think you're on the right track. I've used Zero 158 swc with 3.0 to 3.7gr WST.  Brass was whatever I could get my hands on, mixed headstamps, varying length.  The 3.7 load runs 770 fps and gives me 10 ring groups from sandbags with my Model 14-2. I couldn't tell much difference between 3.0 to 3.3, so I used 3.0 for 25 yards.  It runs 660 fps.
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by oldsalt444 on 5/22/2017, 1:16 am

Norm, I've used 2.8 Titegroup with good results.  It's not position sensitive, which is kind of important with all that extra room in a 38 case.  WST is also a good choice and does well in the 38.  Pressures on the 38 are kinda low, so sorting by headstamp doesn't seem to make much difference.  I do it anyway because I like to do it.  The main thing is the bullet.  I think swaged are more accurate than cast bullets.  They obturate and seal the bore easier.  Just my $0.02

BTW - R-P is Remington Peters
          W-W is Winchester Western
          CBC is Magtech
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by LenV on 6/8/2017, 6:52 pm

I just finished loading a bunch of DR ammo. My favorite load is 3.6gr of WST behind a Magtech 158gr L-RN (BU38A). Imagine my surprise when I decided to order more of these bullets. Midway didn't even list them anymore and Brownells had every single bullet by Magtech listed as "discontinued by factory". I have no idea when they stopped making bullets. The bullet was very soft and had a hollow base and worked the best I have found for the long line. I did find some at Graf and Son's and there are probably others that have some left. Grab some if you can find them is my advice.

Len

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/75320

http://www.brownells.com/reloading/bullets/pistol-bullets/handgun-bullets-prod65095.aspx


Last edited by LenV on 6/9/2017, 10:18 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added link. NFI and brownells info)
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by james r chapman on 6/8/2017, 8:49 pm

Wow!
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Magload on 6/8/2017, 9:25 pm

I am still trying to pick a bullet and load for my 25-2.  So far I don't think it is going to share ammo with my 52-2.  That is going to be a real PITA.  I suspect that AOL is wrong for a wheel gun but have not loaded anything but plated bullets by the manual for my GP100.  At IDPA distances they are just fine but not for the LL.  I read the sticky at the top on 38 SPL loads but the post skip around so much between pistol and revolver is just left me as confused as before and I have read it 3 times at least.  Maybe I am just getting old.  Don
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Jack H on 6/8/2017, 10:54 pm

Magload wrote:I am still trying to pick a bullet and load for my 25-2.  So far I don't think it is going to share ammo with my 52-2.  That is going to be a real PITA.  I suspect that AOL is wrong for a wheel gun but have not loaded anything but plated bullets by the manual for my GP100.  At IDPA distances they are just fine but not for the LL.  I read the sticky at the top on 38 SPL loads but the post skip around so much between pistol and revolver is just left me as confused as before and I have read it 3 times at least.  Maybe I am just getting old.  Don

If you can find 200gr JSWC like Hornady made, try 4.8 Bullseye.  185 JSWC might perform equally well.
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by rebs on 6/9/2017, 8:26 am

jglenn21 wrote:With WST I use 3.0 at the SL and 3.3 at the LL.

Still hard to beat Remington Target SWC  at the LL

why not 3.3 WST for the short line ?

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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by jglenn21 on 6/9/2017, 8:31 am

3.0 was just milder recoil and more than acceptable accuracy
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Magload on 6/9/2017, 8:39 am

Jack H wrote:
Magload wrote:I am still trying to pick a bullet and load for my 25-2.  So far I don't think it is going to share ammo with my 52-2.  That is going to be a real PITA.  I suspect that AOL is wrong for a wheel gun but have not loaded anything but plated bullets by the manual for my GP100.  At IDPA distances they are just fine but not for the LL.  I read the sticky at the top on 38 SPL loads but the post skip around so much between pistol and revolver is just left me as confused as before and I have read it 3 times at least.  Maybe I am just getting old.  Don

If you can find 200gr JSWC like Hornady made, try 4.8 Bullseye.  185 JSWC might perform equally well.

Jack I have noted that my 185 Zero JHP over 4.2 BE does group better, but till I get a dot on this gun a lot of the poor shots come from me trying to shoot iron sights.  I need a grip adapter for my RR.  Don
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by LenV on 6/9/2017, 9:04 am

Magload wrote:I am still trying to pick a bullet and load for my 25-2.  So far I don't think it is going to share ammo with my 52-2.  That is going to be a real PITA.  I suspect that AOL is wrong for a wheel gun but have not loaded anything but plated bullets by the manual for my GP100.  At IDPA distances they are just fine but not for the LL.  I read the sticky at the top on 38 SPL loads but the post skip around so much between pistol and revolver is just left me as confused as before and I have read it 3 times at least.  Maybe I am just getting old.  Don
Talk about leaving me confused. Don, the 25-2 is a 45 and the 52-2 is a 38 special. I don't think your going to be able to share ammo either. Sharing ammo with your 1911 and your 25-2 is very possible but I am not sure if that is what you want. I have my 25-2 loads way below the load that would function my 1911. I do use the same load for both for the longline. LL 4.6gr WST and a Zero 185 JHP. SL 3.4 BE and 185 LSWC. And you can't share loads with your DR revolver with your 52-2 because full WC are not allowed for DR. Welcome to the world of lots of different loads. Smile

Len
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Magload on 6/9/2017, 11:59 am

LenV wrote:
Magload wrote:I am still trying to pick a bullet and load for my 25-2.  So far I don't think it is going to share ammo with my 52-2.  That is going to be a real PITA.  I suspect that AOL is wrong for a wheel gun but have not loaded anything but plated bullets by the manual for my GP100.  At IDPA distances they are just fine but not for the LL.  I read the sticky at the top on 38 SPL loads but the post skip around so much between pistol and revolver is just left me as confused as before and I have read it 3 times at least.  Maybe I am just getting old.  Don
Talk about leaving me confused. Don, the 25-2 is a 45 and the 52-2 is a 38 special. I don't think your going to be able to share ammo either. Sharing ammo with your 1911 and your 25-2 is very possible but I am not sure if that is what you want. I have my 25-2 loads way below the load that would function my 1911. I do use the same load for both for the longline. LL 4.6gr WST and a Zero 185 JHP. SL 3.4 BE and 185 LSWC. And you can't share loads with your DR revolver with your 52-2 because full WC are not allowed for DR. Welcome to the world of lots of different loads. Smile

Len

Len my tech writing leaves a lot to be desired.  lol!  I wanted to share my 45 ACP loads between my 25-2 and my LB wadgun.  Tried the loads again today as I wanted a live fire check of my spring adjustments I did yesterday.  The 25-2 trigger is a lot better as it now doesn't fire when you start to put a little pressure on it and the LB didn't double fire or go auto so it is in specs and feels good.  I will say those 45 LL and SL loads are really snappy in that revolver I can see they need backing off a lot.  Not being much of a revolver shooter I am sure my grip could use some refinement.  Going to have to read about gripping a revolver.  Hey sorry to confuse you but when you get my age you will become used to being confused.  Don

BTW I will not be shooting DR as there is no matches around here that I have found.  Didn't even see it listed in the results of the Florida State Championship Matchs that was held here last year.
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Wobbley on 6/9/2017, 1:15 pm

You need to grip a revolver tight just like an auto pistol.

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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by LenV on 6/9/2017, 5:22 pm

Don, I think Wobbley might have hit on your whole problem with reduced loads in that 25-2. The 25-2 and the 52-2 are two of the most unforgiving pistols you may ever fire if you don't have good follow thru. Lowering the velocity increases/magnifies the problem. There are a lot of threads on here about follow thru and the problems with long barrels.
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Magload on 6/9/2017, 7:01 pm

I think you guys gave me the right answer.  Grip is probably my biggest problem with this BE shooting no matter the gun but yes it is worst with the 25 and 52.   I just yesterday did some practice indoors with my  Shield 45 and with my stance and two hand grip I and irons I was putting 3 out of 5 shots in a 1 inch bull.  Putting the target at a SD range and I will take out the bull with all 5 shots.  Then put my favorite BE gun to shoot my LB and I can only keep at best 8 out of 10 in the black on a 25yd center, most of the time only 6, with my one hand.  The revolvers grip feels strange and the gun is light.  It does not have that solid feel of a 1911 with rough slab grips and the weight.  I will learn and have heard many of you say it took years to get where you are.  I guess being close to 71 I am in a little hurry.  My shooting sucks but it sure is fun.  Don
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by rebs on 6/9/2017, 8:23 pm

Magload wrote:I think you guys gave me the right answer.  Grip is probably my biggest problem with this BE shooting no matter the gun but yes it is worst with the 25 and 52.   I just yesterday did some practice indoors with my  Shield 45 and with my stance and two hand grip I and irons I was putting 3 out of 5 shots in a 1 inch bull.  Putting the target at a SD range and I will take out the bull with all 5 shots.  Then put my favorite BE gun to shoot my LB and I can only keep at best 8 out of 10 in the black on a 25yd center, most of the time only 6, with my one hand.  The revolvers grip feels strange and the gun is light.  It does not have that solid feel of a 1911 with rough slab grips and the weight.  I will learn and have heard many of you say it took years to get where you are.  I guess being close to 71 I am in a little hurry.  My shooting sucks but it sure is fun.  Don


Don I am 70 still shooting and still learning.

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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Magload on 6/9/2017, 8:36 pm

rebs wrote:
Magload wrote:I think you guys gave me the right answer.  Grip is probably my biggest problem with this BE shooting no matter the gun but yes it is worst with the 25 and 52.   I just yesterday did some practice indoors with my  Shield 45 and with my stance and two hand grip I and irons I was putting 3 out of 5 shots in a 1 inch bull.  Putting the target at a SD range and I will take out the bull with all 5 shots.  Then put my favorite BE gun to shoot my LB and I can only keep at best 8 out of 10 in the black on a 25yd center, most of the time only 6, with my one hand.  The revolvers grip feels strange and the gun is light.  It does not have that solid feel of a 1911 with rough slab grips and the weight.  I will learn and have heard many of you say it took years to get where you are.  I guess being close to 71 I am in a little hurry.  My shooting sucks but it sure is fun.  Don


Don I am 70 still shooting and still learning.
Yes when I was a kid they told us we should learn something new everyday.    This is a good sight to learn something new.  I shot at the practice range with a gentleman that was 89 last month.  He did but up more then one target on the LL so he only had to walk half as much.  That was worth learning that one could look forward to shooting that long and longer.  It is not how good you shot but how good you feel about what you shot.  Don
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Magload on 6/10/2017, 1:36 pm

I am just getting ready to sit down and load SL loads for my 25-2.  I do not want to have two loads with different powder charges but the same bullet.  I want to look at the bullet and know what gun it is for.  My 1911 SL is zero 185gr SWCHP with 3.8 BE.  I have 250 SNS 185gr SWC bullets and going to start out trying 3.4gr WST.  Then for the LL I have 500 SNS 200gr RNFP will these do for LL and give me a recommendation for a WST charge for them in the 25-2.  I will not be shooting DR so don't take that in account.  Don
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Re: DR Ammo Brass

Post by Magload on 6/10/2017, 6:26 pm

I received my rail for my 25-2 from Jon Math and installed it this afternoon putting a Ultra Dot on it.  Kind of funky as it is a blued gun and rail and a silver Ultra Dot but that isn't going to effect the accuracy any.  I am waiting on load data to start loading this weekend start testing Monday.  Jon gave me this rail and shipped it to me this forum has the best people on it.  It is really true what they say about BE shooters.  Don
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