First outdoor match

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First outdoor match

Post by AndyLueck on 5/14/2017, 2:11 am

I shot my first outdoor match today.  I shot an 1800 at Aurora Sportsmen's Club in Waterman, IL.  I don't have many rounds through my 45 yet, but wanted to start somewhere.  No better time than the present right?  For this match I was really just hoping that I'd be able to get through it.  I have had issues with my reloads, so I didn't have complete confidence in my ammo.  After I loaded it, I did slug the majority of the rounds.  I am glad I did, as I found some that didn't slug properly.  

During slow fire for 45, I had 2 issues with 2 separate bullets.  The first one in the magazine didn't chamber, the gun didn't go into battery.  I had recently picked up a brass rod for squibs.  I had this beside me, and was able to tap the round out so that the slide would operate.  Prior to doing this, the slide was frozen.  Luckily I had had a similar issue a few weeks ago.  If you told me the first time that happened that I'd be glad it did, I wouldn't believe you.  But it is helpful to have had a problem before so that you can solve it again.

The second issue was that I had a round that didn't fire when the hammer fell.  I cocked the hammer, and the round fired.  I am not sure if you are supposed to cock the 1911 without operating the slide.  Is that a bad idea?  I thought that Brian Zins mentioned that when I took his class.

Aside from the two issues that happened in slow fire, and this surprised me, I didn't have any alibi's at all.  I had no issues with my reloads during timed or rapid fire.  I consider this a big success.  I did much better with 22 than 45.  I expected that, because I have shot my club's 22 league for four years.  I have yet to shoot my club's centerfire league.  Unfortunately, I wasn't able to sight my 45 at 25 and 50 yards prior to the 1800.  I did sight it at 50 feet though.  

The bullets that I'm shooting are 185 grain LSWC (bayou bullets). They have about 4.1 grains of bullseye in them, with CCI large pistol primers.  How much will these bullets drop?  What is the difference between 50 feet, 25 yards, and 50 yards?  When the guy to my right was scoring my timed target, he saw that I grouped right at the bottom of the target.  He suggested aiming above the bullseye.  I aimed probably around the 6 ring, if not a bit above it.  This improved my scores quite a bit.  

To be honest, I don't know what my scores were at all.  We turned them in, but i didn't keep track of them in the moment.  I didn't feel like I had enough time to count my target and score the target I was responsible for scoring.  Probably partially attributed to being my first match.  The fact that I'm not as accurate with my 45 works against me too.  I have more holes to repair than everyone else.  I figure that if I get to the point that protesting a shot or checking a math error matters, I'll have the time to do it.  We were running behind for the match, and I know there were people that didn't want to get home later than they planned.  

I am also planning on getting a red dot for my 45.  I was using irons.  I just haven't gotten around to mounting a dot on it yet.

One last question.  Does anyone know, if you aren't an NRA member, at what point are you assigned a competitor number?  Will I have to shoot another 1800 to be qualified as marksmen first?  Or will I be able to find out what my competitor number is beforehand?

AndyLueck

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Re: First outdoor match

Post by CR10X on 5/14/2017, 6:33 am

Per my recent discussion with NRA staff, non-NRA members will be assigned a competitor number after they have fired enough shots for classification (at least 360 shots, based to tournament totals supplies to NRA).  

If you sign up for Camp Perry, the Nationals) and do not yet have a classification, you will be assigned a number for Camp Perry, but that would not be your competitor number to use for registration at other matches.   (This is my understanding from the conversation with NRA.)

However, it is important to remember that you sign up using, and the match director(s) use, exactly the same name and address while this process is taking place.  Using something like John Doe, Jonathan Doe, and J. Doe; (Nickname, Actual name, First Initial) may wind up with three separate score records even if the address is the same.  
Scorers should record your total score they put on your scorecard (by custom at most matches) on the upper right corner of your repair center.  Then you can quickly see how they scored the target and put that on your check score sheet.  Your scores matter (after the match) for checking results, reviewing the match for training areas, and recording your progress as you progress in the sport.  My recommendation is to start a diary or shooters journal NOW.  

Good Luck and Good Shooting
Cecil

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Re: First outdoor match

Post by Magload on 5/14/2017, 8:38 am

Andy I have the same thing, to many holes to paste and slow scoring the target I have to score.  The guy I was scoring left after the RF and I scored the guy on my other side.  A High Master.  made it easy as, oh darn 2 9s that's a 98.   I don't have time to see if my target was scored right either but then with my scores it really doesn't matter much.  I just check what he wrote in the upper right hand corned and a few times I was even able to smile.  Hey a 91 will put a smile on my face right now.

Sounds like you had a good match and handled any problems just fine.  Don
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by Multiracer on 5/14/2017, 9:36 am

To the OP... I agree with what magload just said as I am experiencing just what he is at the matches.
As we continue to go to different venues and continue the practice we will become very proficent.
Good job.
Ron

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Re: First outdoor match

Post by AndyLueck on 5/14/2017, 2:16 pm

Can anyone weigh in on this question?  I had my gun sighted at 50 feet for reference.

The bullets that I'm shooting are 185 grain LSWC (bayou bullets). They have about 4.1 grains of bullseye in them, with CCI large pistol primers.  How much will these bullets drop?  What is the difference between 50 feet, 25 yards, and 50 yards?  When the guy to my right was scoring my timed target, he saw that I grouped right at the bottom of the target.  He suggested aiming above the bullseye.  I aimed probably around the 6 ring, if not a bit above it.  This improved my scores quite a bit.

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Re: First outdoor match

Post by LenV on 5/14/2017, 8:23 pm

Andy, When you say zeroed at 50' were you using a 25yd target? Do you have adjustable sights? If you have adjustable sights that stand up like the ones on a pistol like the Range Officer and if you are using a 50' target and if you are using a 6:00 hold then the bullet should print near the center at all three distances. That said, if you don't meet all the (if's) above your bullet will print low. I suspect at least one of the criteria above is not happening for you to print that low.

Len

Hmm. a rethink. If you sighted it in at 50' with 25yd targets using a 6:00 hold then you would probably hit high at 25yds. It is all relative to the perceived size of the black center.
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by AndyLueck on 5/14/2017, 11:19 pm

You are correct that it is a Range Officer.  I sighted it at 50 feet such that I should be aiming at the bullseye.  I was concerned about how much the hand loads would drop with so little powder in them.  From what I understand, a manufacturered 22 bullet, or a manufacturered 45 ACP bullet, wouldn't drop much between 50 feet, 25 yards, and 50 yards.  But I suspect that using bullseye hand loads that may be a different story.

When I zeroed at 50 feet, I was using a 50 foot target.  But I think that wouldn't be relevant, because I would be aiming at the center of it regardless.

The other thing that I can think of, is that I may be flinching when pulling the trigger.  It just seems odd that the bullets would seem to drop to about the same spot.

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Re: First outdoor match

Post by LenV on 5/14/2017, 11:37 pm

I can tell you that since you are using a RO and using a center hold that there really wouldn't be much drop between 25 and 50 yds. You should still be hitting in the bottom of the black not the bottom of the target. Actually I can go one step past that. With a 185gr bullet traveling (mv) 800 fps your bullet will drop 2.85" between 25 and the 50 yd target. Look it up.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by AndyLueck on 5/15/2017, 12:00 am

https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/45-auto-acp/

These aren't the same bullets, but for argument's sake.  4.4 grains of bullseye would make a 185 grain Nosler travel 720 fps.  It appears linear that each .5 grains of bullseye would raise the speed an additional 60 fps.  So I suspect that 4.1 grains would travel about 684 fps (.5/60 = .3/x, x would be 36 fps).

So entering 684 into that table, with the load data for Nosler, I'd get .98 drop at 15 yards, 2.58 drop at 25 yards, and 10.01 drop at 50 yards.  I believe the sight height is .18.  So the difference between 50 feet and 25 yards is about 1.5", but the difference between 50 feet and 50 yards is about 10 inches.

I must be flinching when I am shooting then.  I don't have much experience doing timed/rapid fire with my 45.  I noticed that the group was low on the 25 yard line.  I am not sure about the 50 yard line.  It makes sense to me that the problem would be worse during timed and rapid compared to slow however.

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Re: First outdoor match

Post by LenV on 5/15/2017, 12:24 am

Actually you would do the sight height from the center of the bore. I used .75 for my calculations. Quite a difference. Either way, whatever mv you use or sight height it appears the problem is not the sights or the load. Bedtime here it has to be real late there.

Len
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by BE Mike on 5/15/2017, 7:53 am

Get a good screw driver that fits your rear sight. Start cranking that thing up, that's what adjustable sights are for! First matches are normally a time to get an idea of what is going on. As long as you handled your guns safely, you did just fine. Once you get into a routine at matches, using your shot plan, it is a good idea to log your shots and you can add notes in your shooting diary immediately after the match. If you refer to them in training, they are a valuable asset. I suppose that in this day and age, some people do this all with a smart phone. It is good to see new blood getting into the game.
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by Magload on 5/15/2017, 10:13 am

I all actuality  when the bullet leaves the muzzle it is climbing to reach the line of sight.  Now with iron sights this may not be much, with a high mounted scope it could be a lot.  So there fore it crosses the line at 50 feet for you and is climbing  and at 25yds it maybe high.  This all depends on the speed of the bullet and the bullet you are shooting.  Now at some point the bullet is going to drop back to the line of sight and POI will again be POA.  This you need to find out at the range by some benchrest shooting.  Yes the POI probably won't be the same place as off hand but the amount of drop will be.  It may benefit  you to sigh in at 25 as that should put you just a little low at 50 feet.  My ballistic program will not go down to 50 feet or I could tell you.  Don
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by Rob Kovach on 5/15/2017, 5:05 pm

My Springfield iron sight is 50 clicks up from bottomed out for 50 yards. -3 from that for 25 yards.
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by AndyLueck on 5/15/2017, 9:46 pm

Rob Kovach wrote:My Springfield iron sight is 50 clicks up from bottomed out for 50 yards.  -3 from that for 25 yards.

Thanks Rob.  What is it for 50 feet?

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Re: First outdoor match

Post by BE Mike on 5/16/2017, 8:10 am

My 25 yard sight setting works for me at 50'. Of course YMMV.
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by Virgil Kane on 5/16/2017, 8:55 am

Rob Kovach wrote:My Springfield iron sight is 50 clicks up from bottomed out for 50 yards.  -3 from that for 25 yards.

For 6 o'clock, sub 6 or center hold ?

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Re: First outdoor match

Post by Rob Kovach on 5/16/2017, 2:35 pm

6 o'clock
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Re: First outdoor match

Post by Multiracer on 5/22/2017, 9:07 am

Shot my third outdoor 2700 Sunday. Set a personal best of 2155 partly because I had two great coaches helping me both on and off the range. Thanks fellows. I had no issues with both equipment or ammunition. I did have a few issues with engaging the brain and my arm strength. What a Face
Now on to cleaning and reloading for the next event.
Ron


Last edited by Multiracer on 5/22/2017, 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding more juicy bits.)

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