Question for Pardini guys.

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Question for Pardini guys.

Post by zanemoseley on 5/17/2017, 7:34 pm

I'm getting out of 3P and selling my rifle so I'll have a chunk of cash to invest in bullseye gear. I currently shoot a Nelson conversion for .22 and a 1911 in .45 for both CF and .45. I'm on my 3rd season and am still fighting recoil induced error in the .45, when running it 2 matches in a row it can get pretty frustrating especially on bad days.

I've been reading more about the .32acp and it looks amazing, 50% more recoil than a .22lr and down to 1" accuracy at 50 yards with the Hornady 60 grain XTP.

I talked to Vladamir at PardiniUSA today and he was helpful however I'll be honest I was having a bit of a hard time with his accent. His English is better than my Russian lol but I was having a bit of a hard time getting in depth with him on some issues.

I understand the SP starts as a .22 and the HP starts as a .32. The SP has a conversion for .32 and the HP has a conversion for .22, both have bullseye options with heavier bolts for 50 yard accuracy.

 What I don't understand is what the advantage is of going with the SP or HP and buying the conversion to allow both calibers. What I'm getting at is if you plan on using the Pardini for both calibers which is better the SP or HP.

Honestly what draws me to the Pardini is the .32acp caliber so part of me wants to pass up the 22 conversion all together and stick with the nelson but another part of me thinks I'll regret it later if I don't get it in both calibers. It would be nice to shoot the same pistol for .22 and CF with a slight elevation adjustment.

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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/17/2017, 7:41 pm

zanemoseley wrote:I'm getting out of 3P and selling my rifle so I'll have a chunk of cash to invest in bullseye gear. I currently shoot a Nelson conversion for .22 and a 1911 in .45 for both CF and .45. I'm on my 3rd season and am still fighting recoil induced error in the .45, when running it 2 matches in a row it can get pretty frustrating especially on bad days.

I've been reading more about the .32acp and it looks amazing, 50% more recoil than a .22lr and down to 1" accuracy at 50 yards with the Hornady 60 grain XTP.

I talked to Vladamir at PardiniUSA today and he was helpful however I'll be honest I was having a bit of a hard time with his accent. His English is better than my Russian lol but I was having a bit of a hard time getting in depth with him on some issues.

I understand the SP starts as a .22 and the HP starts as a .32. The SP has a conversion for .32 and the HP has a conversion for .22, both have bullseye options with heavier bolts for 50 yard accuracy.

 What I don't understand is what the advantage is of going with the SP or HP and buying the conversion to allow both calibers. What I'm getting at is if you plan on using the Pardini for both calibers which is better the SP or HP.

Honestly what draws me to the Pardini is the .32acp caliber so part of me wants to pass up the 22 conversion all together and stick with the nelson but another part of me thinks I'll regret it later if I don't get it in both calibers. It would be nice to shoot the same pistol for .22 and CF with a slight elevation adjustment.
Doesn't matter if you start with the SP or HP and buy the conversion of the opposite caliber. If you can't shoot the 45 now, adding a CF of a lower caliber isn't going to help your 45. You may add a few points to your total with a lower caliber CF but your gonna drop that much or more in your 45 scores.

Once you master the 45 you can be like those guys shooting 885+ with the 45 in CF and 45
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by zanemoseley on 5/17/2017, 7:59 pm

Chris, I expected someone to make this point early on. A few points would be an understatement, on a bad day the difference in my 22 and 45 can be over 100 points.

Don't get me wrong I realize top male competitors typically use a 45 only for c.f./45 to maximize hole size and reduce guns to master. I'm trying every chance I can get to practice the 45 and master the caliber, unfortunately that is usually only on weekends, I do practice at 10m with my Steyr during the week but that does nothing for the recoil of a 45. I don't plan on easing up on my 45 practice.

If I could use my 22 for CF I would, the 32acp might be second best. I'm not at risk of winning Nationals anytime soon. I'm trying to keep matches fun while slowly getting better, I was hoping to hit expert this year but not sure if I'll make it. Perhaps some people don't have the recoil issues I have but 180 rounds of 45 in a row can really be demoralizing on rough days.

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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/17/2017, 8:12 pm

zanemoseley wrote:Chris, I expected someone to make this point early on. A few points would be an understatement, on a bad day the difference in my 22 and 45 can be over 100 points.

Don't get me wrong I realize top male competitors typically use a 45 only for c.f./45 to maximize hole size and reduce guns to master. I'm trying every chance I can get to practice the 45 and master the caliber, unfortunately that is usually only on weekends, I do practice at 10m with my Steyr during the week but that does nothing for the recoil of a 45. I don't plan on easing up on my 45 practice.

If I could use my 22 for CF I would, the 32acp might be second best. I'm not at risk of winning Nationals anytime soon. I'm trying to keep matches fun while slowly getting better, I was hoping to hit expert this year but not sure if I'll make it. Perhaps some people don't have the recoil issues I have but 180 rounds of 45 in a row can really be demoralizing on rough days.
If you have physically limitations a smaller caliber cf might be for you.  Things like shooting lead, downloading loads for 25 yards can help, it's been said here recoil can lead to lost points. You can shoot 22only for 2700 if you like. You should probably focus on performance goals instead of setting classification goals. 

Are you cleaning 22 slow fires and timed and rapids? I was told if I can't do it with a 22 and it's minimal recoil and lighter trigger how can I do it with a 45 with more recoil and a  heavier trigger.

Never had that problem with 45 being far lower than 22....for me typically 22 is lower than my 45.

I'm currently shooting 3.4BE with a 200lswc @ 25 with a slide mount micro optic, when I don't clean targets I can't blame the recoil. It's all between the ears and the trigger finger for me.

Another thing to look at is a frame mount optic, the chug isn't so much there as with a slide mount but it does recoil less and you can get away with lighter loads 


If your shooting irons....

Understand this is all coming from some guy that has a 32acp CF guy being built Smile
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by zanemoseley on 5/17/2017, 8:33 pm

What kind of 32acp are you getting built?

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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/17/2017, 8:55 pm

zanemoseley wrote:What kind of 32acp are you getting built?
P240
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by troystaten on 5/17/2017, 8:59 pm

Maybe a 38 special 1911?  There is a thread on this.

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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by zanemoseley on 5/17/2017, 9:39 pm

Yeah I started the 1911 .38 special thread. But I got to thinking about it a bit more. Recoil is a result of bullet weight and velocity primarily, yes there are other factors such as pistol construction and other factors like blow back versus locking breech but in general 90% of the recoil comes down to bullet weight and velocity.

I run 185 grain lead bullets in my 45, dropping down to a 148 grain 38 special wadcutters will only cut about 20% of the recoil, going down to a 60 grain 32acp will cut the recoil by roughly 2/3.

Some day I'll own a 38 special but not sure it's the best use of funds now.

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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by bdas on 5/18/2017, 10:29 am

As a fellow competitor who has issues with my 45 scores not matching my 22 scores... I chose to walk the oft-recommended path of working more on the fundamentals and sticking with the 45 for both CF and 45, and trying to master it with fundamentals.  I can say that, while my 22 scores continue to outstrip my 45 scores by a significant margin, it is possible to learn the 45 and significantly improve those scores.  Obviously everyone is different, but I find that dry firing with the 45 goes a LONG way towards defeating anticipation with it, and having a shot plan is critical to remaining focused on what's important (i.e. distracting you from the anticipation, in a sense).

That being said, if I had the money, I probably would have tried a Pardini 32ACP for centerfire.  I think the idea of working up to the 45, with the 32 as a step in the middle, is a reasonable approach, and might be the best approach for some people.  And if you had the 22 conversion for it, it would mitigate the have-to-learn-3-different-guns issue (but also makes the 45 stand out as the "different" one).

I'd still like to see an answer to the question about the difference between the Pardini SP and HP, especially when considering getting both the 22 and 32.  Does anybody have an answer to that?

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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/18/2017, 10:33 am

I don't know of a difference between the two other than the parts that come with the conversion. Well.. whats inscribed on the frame is different.
side note while the 32acp has been proven to be an accurate round, the amount of time,effort and reload testing is far greater with this round than the 45 and 38.
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by zanemoseley on 5/18/2017, 10:55 am

I've seen posts with lots of reloading data for the Pardini .32acp. The one guy I saw that got near 1" groups with Titegroup and the 60 grain Hornady XTP had tested tons of powder/bullet combos. 

I wonder how universal the loading data would prove to be on the same platform? I know a lot of rifle shooters like to think of each rifle and barrel as "unique" and won't consider a load that works in one rifle work in another even if its the same model/brand/chamber.

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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by carykiteboarder on 5/18/2017, 1:47 pm

Responding to the original question...
You need EITHER an SPBE or HP frame.  For emphasis, the SP variations that are not Bullseye Edition cannot accommodate the .32ACP conversion.  (There are minor tuning differences one must do for things like magazine springs and recoil buffers.)

Sorry Chris, I respectfully disagree on any difference in reloading effort & testing.  I use the same powders for .32ACP that I use for .45ACP.  (BE & VV N310)  For .32ACP, it only took one session of testing loads in .1gr increments to find the one that came closest to 880fps velocity goal.  It functions perfectly and is easily X-ring accurate at 50yds.  DONE!  My .45ACP loads however are still constantly getting tweaked for function, recoil and accuracy.

I do admit that .32ACP reloaded ammo is actually more expensive than .45 ammo.  I can buy Zero 185gr JHP bullets for about 2 cents apiece less than the Hornady XTP 60gr JHP bullets used for the .32ACP.
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/18/2017, 2:10 pm

carykiteboarder wrote:Responding to the original question...
You need EITHER an SPBE or HP frame.  For emphasis, the SP variations that are not Bullseye Edition cannot accommodate the .32ACP conversion.  (There are minor tuning differences one must do for things like magazine springs and recoil buffers.)

Sorry Chris, I respectfully disagree on any difference in reloading effort & testing.  I use the same powders for .32ACP that I use for .45ACP.  (BE & VV N310)  For .32ACP, it only took one session of testing loads in .1gr increments to find the one that came closest to 880fps velocity goal.  It functions perfectly and is easily X-ring accurate at 50yds.  DONE!  My .45ACP loads however are still constantly getting tweaked for function, recoil and accuracy.

I do admit that .32ACP reloaded ammo is actually more expensive than .45 ammo.  I can buy Zero 185gr JHP bullets for about 2 cents apiece less than the Hornady XTP 60gr JHP bullets used for the .32ACP.
Can you develop a load for my 32 when it comes time?
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by carykiteboarder on 5/18/2017, 3:59 pm

Chris,
Lol!  You're on your own buddy.  Nobody MADE you not choose the only production .32ACP target pistol. When you have your gun, I'll give you a box of 50 of my ammo and you can compare it to the PMC or Hornady commercial ammo you'll use to break it in.
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Dr.Don on 5/18/2017, 4:04 pm

carykiteboarder,
Have you worked on any loads using the T&B 60gr cast SWC that seems to be popular with some Pardini users? If so, how were they?
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by carykiteboarder on 5/18/2017, 4:47 pm

Don,
I have not tried lead SWC in the Pardini.  No interest in doing so either.
Glen
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by zanemoseley on 5/18/2017, 5:06 pm

Glen, how did you develop the 880fps velocity goal? Is it a known sweet spot for the Hornady XTP 60's? I currently have 12 pounds or so of WST I use in my 45 loads. I recall seeing where Titegroup performed quite well with the Hornady XTP.

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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by carykiteboarder on 5/18/2017, 7:10 pm

To be clear, I haven't done any "original" work.  The 880fps came from the Pardini guys who load for their shooters.  So, my actual point is that the Pardini HP in .32ACP is easy to reload.  It is inherently accurate and functions in a wide band of velocities.

I use 2.1gr BE, Winchester primers, .895" OAL, .330" crimp, Starline brass and Hornady XTP 60gr JHP bullets.  Because most on-line vendors are sloppy, it's easy to get confused about the bullets.  The 60gr XTP bullets are .311".  I specifically bought dies for the .311" size bullet.

I tried VV N310 and BE and both were excellent.  I subjectively like the feel of BE a little better.  That's all I've got.
Glen
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Magload on 5/18/2017, 7:22 pm

You all have got me interested in this Pardini .32 ACP but can I just buy the gun in 32 or do I have to mortgage my house and buy it in 22 Bullseye and also a 32 conversion.  I would only be shooting the gun in 32.  Don
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/18/2017, 7:26 pm

Magload wrote:You all have got me interested in this Pardini .32 ACP but can I just buy the gun in 32 or do I have to mortgage my house and buy it in 22 Bullseye and also a 32 conversion.  I would only be shooting the gun in 32.  Don't
You can buy it in a complete gun in 32acp
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Magload on 5/18/2017, 7:41 pm

Thanks Chris I will add it to the top of my bucket list as i don't think this 52-2 is going to work out.  Don
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by carykiteboarder on 5/19/2017, 9:28 pm

Back to OP's original question... "which is better the SP or HP"
SPBE and HP are equivalent frames for shooting .22 and .32acp.  However, if you are going to shoot the same gun for .22 and CF, you need a 2.5lb minimum trigger pull.  When you buy an HP, it'll be already set. With a SPBE, it comes with 2.0lb+ and you'll have to do the adjustment yourself.  The English trigger adjustment instructions in the manual are not great.
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by john bickar on 5/19/2017, 10:14 pm

Chris Miceli wrote:
zanemoseley wrote:What kind of 32acp are you getting built?
P240

Interdasting.

Who's building that?
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Toz35m on 5/20/2017, 3:05 am

To the OP,

I think you should focus on the process of getting better at the 45.  You have to shoot it at some point.  I have spent a long time shooting a Pardini for 22 and getting HM scores and my 45 scores around 800.  Spend time following the AMU or marine training manual.  They are similar.  I found lots of benefit of 2 shot drills.  Load up 2 rounds or load 6 rounds in a mag and just shoot 2 shots using range commands.  keep repeating until you shoot 2 10's consistently. Do not worry about how long it takes to get the 2 tens just work on the process of getting 2 tens. Sometimes I just do not use the range commands and just focus on the basics of stringing 2 shots together. Then move to 3 shots, then 4 and then 5.
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

Post by Chris Miceli on 5/20/2017, 7:30 am

john bickar wrote:
Chris Miceli wrote:
zanemoseley wrote:What kind of 32acp are you getting built?
P240

Interdasting.

Who's building that?
David Sams
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Re: Question for Pardini guys.

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